In the first hour, “Cold War II” with Anthony D’Agostino.
In the second hour, “Deaf in a Talking World” with Rachel Zemach.
Below is a transcript of the second hour of the show
Philip Maldari: You’re listening to “The Sunday Show” here on KPFA. I am Philip Maldari, and in this hour, I’m very pleased to be joined in by Rachel Zemach.
Rachel has completed a memoir of her life titled, The Butterfly Cage: Joy, Heartache and Corruption Teaching While Deaf in California Public Schools. Rachel is with us in the studio. Very pleased that you can join us in studio.
Also with us is an ASL interpreter for Rachel, as Rachel is Deaf, and our interpreter is Anna Mindess. You won’t hear anything from Anna because Rachel has speech, despite the fact she is entirely deaf, and part of the reason she has speech is because she became deaf at age ten.
So, Rachel, you wanted to give a little explanation to start things off about the fact that you have speech.
Rachel Zemach: Good question, and good to meet you. Good to be here. I have what we refer to as speaking privilege because, as you said, because I became deaf at age ten, I had already learned to speak, of course, by the time I lost my hearing suddenly at ten.
So, it was just a matter of maintaining the speech. I did that by wearing a hearing aid that was quite powerful, and I just kept speaking. When I take the hearing aid off, I’m not comfortable using my voice because I can’t hear myself at all, and it feels like I’m talking into a vacuum.
Philip Maldari: Do you have hearing aids on now? One hearing aid on?
Rachel Zemach: Yeah, it works to a point. In other words, for example, we were listening to this radio show while we were driving, my husband and I driving here today, and he heard you mention this segment of the show, I heard it as well, but I didn’t understand any of the words. So, the hearing aid is very limited. It gives sound but no meaning.
Philip Maldari: So, your memoir is, I think, a must-read. For those of us in the hearing world, we’re so ignorant of the Deaf community and the fact that the Deaf community is absolutely like an ethnic group or is a whole–I’ll use the word community—underlined community. It is a group of people that thrive on associating with each other, and I don’t think most hearing people understand that.
Rachel Zemach: Yeah, one of my favorite lines comes from somebody who was actually an editor at one of the big publishing houses, the “Big Five,” who I hoped to publish with.
They declined the book, but she declined it with a beautiful phrase. She said that she had learned a lot from the book, and unlearned a lot, and I think the unlearning is really the purpose I wrote it for. I want hearing people to unlearn their assumptions.
Philip Malderi: So, the book starts out with you becoming an elementary school teacher for Deaf children in a public elementary school where your Deaf classroom of ten or so children is separate from the hearing classrooms. At the same time, the principal and the administrators of this school seem remarkably ignorant about what or how to, in fact, address the needs of Deaf children.
Rachel Zemach: I’m sorry to say you’re absolutely right. It was bizarre sometimes, to be honest. It was like going into one universe when I went into my classroom, and it was a beautiful universe. The children were fantastic. They were smart and funny and wonderful, and there was no limit to what we could do in that classroom in terms of developing language itself and learning and discussing anything about the world, about academics. There was a sense of limitlessness that ASL gave us in that classroom. But the moment the children or I stepped outside the classroom, there were limits all over the place, and that kind of shocked me.
Philip Malderi: I think that you need to give an explanation about American Sign Language, or ASL. I did a search of ASL and saw its beginnings more than 100 years ago, and ASL initially started off as sign language, but then, of course, changed over the decades, and it is not English.
So, explain what it is. What is American Sign Language? And, of course, American Sign Language is what Anna is doing right now with you, so you understand my question.
Rachel Zemach: Good question. So, you’re right. Just for people listening here, Anna is sitting in front of me in this room, and she’s signing everything that Philip is saying. Otherwise, I would be at a huge disadvantage here trying to understand him through lip reading, which is very ineffective.
So, she’s signing in ASL and it is not English at all. I’m glad you brought that up because I think a lot of people think that American Sign Language, or ASL, is English on the hands. English made visual and physical.
But, it’s a totally different language—it has its own grammar, its own structure, its own value system, its own idioms. Beautiful idioms. Interesting, funny, beautiful idioms. And it has its own power. I would say tremendous power, especially for the brain of a Deaf child; to deliver information directly. It’s very variable and very playful and very nuanced and layered. So, when you say something in English, it’s flat by comparison. You’re using a certain set of words, and you can have some intonation. But when you say the same thing in ASL, you can add so much nuance to that same exact sentence.
For example, you can tell a story of it something that happened when you ran into somebody unexpectedly. You can tell it from a bird’s eyes view, how physically the two of you ran into each other, how you saw each other. Then you can show your feelings of seeing that person, then you can show the expression on their face. You can show physically how you noticed each other. There’s just so much complexity. So, it’s a very different kind of language, and it has very little in common with English.
Philip Malderi: So, there has been a divide going back to Thomas Edison and Gallaudet. Gallaudet was the founder of Gallaudet University for Deaf people in Washington, DC. And Thomas Edison—we’re talking more than 100 years ago—Thomas Edison was definitely of the impression that Deaf people should be totally integrated into the hearing world, which is what we would call mainstreamed. Gallaudet was of the opinion that there is Deaf culture, and it should be encouraged.
So, again, this conflict exists to this day of mainstreaming versus Deaf culture, and it plays out in your situation in that public school. You went on more than a decade later to teach at the California School for the Deaf, which is totally an ASL institution now in Fremont, California. Elaborate on this separation between oralism, which is, like, mainstreaming and Deaf culture.
Rachel Zemach: That’s the overarching problem for Deaf people in this country, is the divide in mindset of what to do with a Deaf child.
Do you teach them speech and put listening devices on them—cochlear implants or hearing aids—put them in a “regular” hearing class in a hearing school, try to make them fit in and pass as a hearing child and consider that a success? Do you consider it a success if they can speak a little bit, if they can lip-read?
Or do you teach them sign language in ASL and give them access to a visual language that has no limits? Not the kind of limits that lip-reading and trying to understand hearing people has, but pure language, 100% accessible via ASL and then surround them with other Deaf people, children and adults, role models, a beautiful, rich culture that has its own folklore icons, its own sense of humor.
Do you give them that? Or do you see that as being separatist and isolating them? So, most of the country believes in the first version, and I don’t think it’s their fault. I think this is the type of unlearning I’m hoping readers of my book will take away.
It’s a simple, benevolent way of thinking that you’re trying to help the Deaf child. Why wouldn’t you want them to be normal? Why wouldn’t you want them to fit in, to have an easy time in the hearing world? But that’s oblivious to the feelings of the Deaf child, the real experience, the inner experience of that child in these situations, and the child can’t express themselves to say how they’re feeling.
They’re not even clearly aware of it themselves, while Deaf adults have a very strong instinct—not all of them, but many of them, and I would say the majority of deaf professionals, people who work at Gallaudet University, people who are part of the Deaf community, people who teach at the Deaf school right here in Fremont—they have the belief that Deaf culture, ASL, the companionship that comes with a critical mass of Deaf peers and Deaf role models, and Deaf teachers is the highest quality of education and life you can give a Deaf person.
Philip Malderi: My guest is Rachel Zemach. She is the author of The Butterfly Cage: Joy, Heartache and Corruption Teaching While Deaf in California Public Schools. The book is absolutely fascinating. It’s been out since April, so it’s available in bookstores and online.
It’s published by Paper Angel Press/Unrulyvoices. I do encourage people listening right now, like myself, who confess my total ignorance, to get it. This book is an eye opener, an ear opener as well, and I really encourage people to check it out.
We will be opening the phones in 20 minutes or so at 1-809-589-0081. Again, 1-809 589-0081 so you can ask Rachel questions. I want to re-state that Anna Mendes is the interpreter with us in the studio, though you’re not hearing her at all, because Rachel has speech.
In any case, let’s talk about teaching English. In fact, English is a second language for people who use ASL. It’s like me trying to learn Spanish or something. So, how does it work for an ASL communicating child to learn English? And I’m assuming that learning English is a priority here.
Rachel Zemach: You know, that’s a good question. It’s a complicated one. The answer to it is complicated. But a bilingual approach has been adopted by the school for the Deaf in Fremont ever since the mid 1970s, and what that means is they use ASL as their primary language, but the goal is also to teach English simultaneously and consistently. The primary language here is ASL. English is not allowed to take precedence over ASL, but it’s respected and it’s honored, and they attempt to teach it.
But in mainstream schools, where 85% of our children attend mainstream schools or hearing schools, English is given precedence and ASL is at the bottom of the totem pole. So often, children graduate 12th grade from mainstream schools with very low literacy levels because they never got a foundation of language itself.
Before you can learn a second language, you have to have a first language. For these children, ASL is the ideal first language that can help their brain develop and that they can access easily. And because of the unique qualities of ASL, it’s a very intuitive language, so it really works, but it’s denigrated. For those 85% of our children, it’s denigrated, and English is put above it. And very often, the children in those schools never even get exposed to ASL. They never learn it.
So, the irony is that hearing people are taking ASL classes in droves. It’s a very popular thing among hearing people, and hearing babies are being taught ASL, whereas Deaf children are actively and aggressively being denied it. Not out of malice, it’s out of good intentions, but it’s a very destructive thing.
Philip Malderi: There’s also something called Signed Exact English (SEE), and this is English with the word order of subject, verb, and object with your hands. How does Signed Exact English work?
Rachel Zemach: Okay, I’m really glad you asked me. A lot of people are going to disagree with me here. Some of the callers probably will be among them, and they’re welcome to disagree. So, the 85% of our Deaf children who go to public schools, the majority of them are taught in SEE.
SEE stands for Signed Exact English. It started with good intentions. It was never intended to be a language. SEE was intended to help teach English to Deaf kids, because English is really a hard language for Deaf people to learn if they’ve never heard it, if their brain has not even got a foundation of a real first language.
English has all its idiosyncrasies, all its quirkiness, all its illogical connections and madness, and then you have somebody who’s never even heard it, and it’s almost like hieroglyphics. It’s nonsense. It doesn’t really make sense to somebody who hasn’t overheard it casually by hearing.
So, SEE was developed in order to help bridge that gap. Many people believe in it. Many people are passionate about it, and many people say that it helped them learn English. However, my experience of it has been it confuses children. It often does not make sense. It lacks the beauty of ASL and it’s not meaning-based. It’s sound-based.
Well, for example, when you say, “I’m going to the park, I’ll meet you at the park.” In ASL, you would say, “I’ll meet you,” and it’s visually shown as two people meeting each other at a park, and you might describe the grass and the swings at the park. In SEE, you’ll say, “I’ll meet you.” You might say “meet,” like two people meeting, or you might say, “meat,” like meat and potatoes. There’s no logic. You use the sign that you know that fits the sound. Well, meat and meet sound the same. You’re not thinking of the meaning. You’re thinking of English and putting it on the hands. I mean, you’re confusing the heck out of the child.
So, “I’ll meet you at the park.” And the sign SEE uses for the word “park” is, in my experience with what I have seen used with little children, it’s the sign for a parked car in ASL. This sign means I parked my car. It’s literally a vehicle that is parked.
To a little Deaf child, you’re saying, “I’ll meet you in the parked car.” It doesn’t make sense. Or, “we’ll eat some meat in a parked car,” as opposed to going to a park and playing there. Like, why would you make language even more confusing for somebody whose obstacle in life is communication?
Another example is this. I used to work at a preschool for Deaf children. One day—this story is in my book—I came into work and I saw a teacher talking to a little kid.
She was about three or four years old, a very smart little Deaf kid. The teacher was saying something over and over again to her in sign language, in SEE signs, and the child was bewildered. Well, I was bewildered too.
The teacher was saying, “Where is your sandwich?” while she was signing “sand” like the sand on a beach and “witch” like the witch on a broomstick. To the kid, the teacher was saying, “Where is your sand, witch?”
I watched them going back and forth. She repeated herself four or five times, the child was near tears, and the teacher was near tears. When I figured out what was happening, I asked the teacher, “Look, can I help? Please, can I try something?” The teacher said, “Oh, please do.”
So I said to the child, “Where is your sandwich?” in ASL, with the hand signifying meat or cheese, whatever it is, in between two pieces of bread. Then you put it close to your mouth. It’s meaning-based, it makes sense. It is a sandwich you eat. The child said, “Oh! It’s over there!” and ran to get it. It took literally three seconds.
I also don’t believe that [SEE] it is necessary for teaching English. In fact, in the book, I have a story of a child in fourth grade who I previously taught, and one day her mainstream teacher came to me and asked me for help. The teacher said, “I gave out a quiz on a unit that I’ve been teaching for a whole month, she has had an interpreter the whole time, But the student is not filling out the quiz at all. I’m keeping her in for recess, but I don’t understand what’s going on.”
I said, “Wow, that’s very strange,” because I knew this kid. So, I went there, and I asked the girl, “Why didn’t you write anything on your quiz?” And, she said, “Well, I didn’t know the answers to any of this.” And it was about Anne Frank.
It was a unit on Anne Frank. So, I said, “Can you tell me about Anne Frank? Where is she now? Is she okay? Can you tell me about her?” And the student said, “Oh, yes, she’s fine. I think she lives in Oregon.”
I said, “Wait a minute. Anne Frank?” She said, “Oh yeah, she’s very happy.” I said, “Look, can you read the segment to me in your book about Anne Frank?”
She said, “Oh, sure,” and she read it to me in SEE. The interpreter also used SEE signs, by the way. So, this girl, who is a very, very smart girl, started reading the chapter to me, word by word, in SEE signs. She wasn’t worried about what it meant, she was worried about finding some way to represent every single word, and she didn’t care that it was gibberish. There was no mental connection to the meaning for her because SEE is not concerned with mental connections in my experience.
Philip Malderi: Okay, it is 34 minutes after ten in the morning. You’re listening to “The Sunday Show here on KPFA. I am Philip Malderi. Rachel Zemach is the author of The Butterfly Cage: Joy, Heartache and Corruption Teaching While Deaf in a California Public School.
It’s a memoir. It’s out. Rachel is totally Deaf from age ten and it’s her life experience teaching in a public school right here in the East Bay, and then later teaching in the California School for the Deaf, which is in Fremont, California.
We are going to open the phones shortly. You can get in on this conversation by giving us a call at 1-809-589-0081. 809-589-0081. There are stories that ASL was so denigrated that in the past, Deaf children, at least one Deaf child, had her hands tied behind her back so that she couldn’t sign. Tell that story. It’s sort of shocking.
Rachel Zemach: That’s actually common. It occurs in different forms now. It’s a form of audism. It really is. Back in 1880, there was a conference, and that conference was life changing for Deaf people educationally in this country.
That conference was in Milan, and it decided that sign language would not be allowed in schools for Deaf children, but rather speech would be taught. And Alexander Graham Bell was a big part of this. So, the ramifications of it went on for years and still to this day show up in different forms, including where I taught, although they’re more subtle. Unconscious, and covert, but still there. The word for it is audism. A-U-D-I-S-M. I urge you to Google that word.
Tying hands behind children’s backs was a way to get them to stop signing because after the Milan conference, that was a very strong and clear goal, and the kids were still signing. And the natural propensity of any Deaf person with another Deaf person is to take the path of least resistance and sign. So, they were only signing in bathrooms secretly to each other, and it’s part of our history.
Philip Malderi: The other thing is finger spelling. So how often or when on what occasions do you use finger spelling?
Rachel Zemach: Oh, finger spelling is very important because for names, you need to finger spell your name. You may get a name sign, but initially you need to finger spell your name.
And if you’re going to meet at a restaurant, you need to spell the name of the restaurant, even if you’re meeting in a parked car to eat there (laughing.) If you’re going to a movie, you fingerspell the name of the movie. It’s important.
Philip Malderi: Okay. The other aspect of all of this is that when you started teaching at the California School for the Deaf, this is a totally different experience than what you had in the public school, I might mention, just for those who are Berkeley centric.
The California School for the Deaf and the California School for the Blind were once located in Berkeley at what is now called the Clark Kerr campus of the University of California-Berkeley. In 1980, the University of California succeeded in driving out these two schools out of very prime real estate, just six blocks from campus, driving them out because they said the earthquake fault made it too dangerous for these blind and Deaf children, and then they promptly turned it into a bunch of dormitories for UC students.
So, that’s how the California School for the Deaf ended up being in Fremont. But the city of Berkeley also… what can I say…collaborated with the university in driving out the California School for the Deaf, but I get that you as a child actually went to the School for the Deaf in Berkeley, is that correct?
Rachel Zemach: Yes, I went there in one of its very last years before it moved to Fremont. In fact, I was there in ninth grade shortly before it moved to Fremont. And one thing I want to tell you very quickly about CSD-Fremont is that right now they are in the middle of very tough negotiations with the state to try to get pay raises for their SEIU local 1000 Union.
CSD-Fremont staff are asking for a 30% pay raise over three years just simply so they don’t have to sleep in their cars because they live so far away, and they are being offered only 2% per year instead.
So, I wanted to make sure your listeners understand that it’s very serious and if the school closes, it will be an unbelievable loss for the Deaf community.
Philip Malderi: Okay, well, it’s time to open the phones. The phones are full, actually, which is a little unusual, but when a line opens up, the phone number is 1-809-589-0081. 809-589-0081.
And just for those who joined the conversation more recently, this verbal communication is being interpreted by Anna Mindess, and that is how Rachel is hearing what I have to say or interpreting what I have to say, and it’s also how Rachel will understand what you have to say. So let’s go to our first caller, Ariane in San Francisco. Ariane, you’re on the air.
Ariane [Caller]: Thank you so much for this exquisite and sensitive discussion of the uniqueness of each child and how each child needs to be respected for his or her uniqueness.
I want to underscore the importance of your opening remark, Rachel, when you talk about breaking through the wrong assumptions that we make automatically. I can’t emphasize this enough because we’re all bombarded by media products and information every day of our lives, moment to moment.
And it’s very hard to have a new thought or to think in a way that opens things up. And you’re really—because you’ve paid for this experience—you’re really showing us with your very being what it means to feel, think and live a certain understanding of something.
I just want to end with two thoughts. My teacher in London, my Treya, who’s a great world teacher, he says that everything is conditioned. Everything that is conditioned limits our freedom. And the only way to break through that is through self-awareness.
I think that the kind of reverence that you’re expressing for people’s uniqueness and exquisite sensitivity gets us closer to that heightened awareness. And I so honor you and thank you.
Philip Malderi: Okay, Ariane, thank you.
Rachel Zemach: Thank you. That’s a big honor to me.
Philip Malderi: Okay, let’s go to the next caller. Up next is Bernie in Martinez. Bernie, you’re on the air.
Bernie [Caller]: Hi, can you hear me?
Philip Malderi: Yes, I can hear you.
Bernie [Caller]: Okay, well, I can’t hear you. I’m using a caption phone myself. Hey, Rachel, congratulations on your book. We’ve met.
Rachel Zemach: Yes. Hello!
Bernie [Caller]: Hey. So glad that you’re on the radio. Thank you so much for highlighting Rachel in her book, and she’s highlighting so many things about the Deaf community.
Rachel, can you also talk about legislation now, for instance, LEAD-K in language equality and acquisition for Deaf kids that I think Nyle Di’Marco was promoting? It’s promoting that children up to kindergarten-age levels have access to ASL even if they’re stuck in mainstream schools.
Rachel Zemach: Yes, LEAD-K is doing some wonderful work. So, when I taught for ten years in a public school, most of my students came to me very intelligent, but with almost zero language. And the school administration didn’t understand this, that the kids needed language first before they could learn academics.
So, my job was a very big one, a very hard one, and the children’s job was even harder, trying to understand their own parents without any language in common with their parents and going to school where most of the teachers don’t sign.
In other words, they just had no language access, and this results in almost a form of brain damage. You can’t develop your thoughts without language, and the window of time that humans need to learn language is ideally newborn to five years old. If you miss that window, you have tremendous challenges… that were unnecessary! Those challenges are just from language deprivation and about 70% of Deaf and hard of hearing children have these obstacles from language deprivation issues.
LEAD-K is an attempt to remedy that, it’s legislation that tries to give linguistic milestones for Deaf children. So even though the milestones are being met in ASL rather than in English, the goal is that they be met by everybody and not skipped. I’m very impressed with LEAD-K.
Philip Malderi: Let’s go to our next caller. Up next is Belle in Santa Monica. Belle, you’re on the air.
Belle [Caller]: Hello.
Philip Malderi: Speak as loud as you can because you’re very quiet.
Belle [Caller]: Hello.
Philip Malderi: Belle, speak as loud as you can because it’s very hard to hear you.
Belle [Caller]: Okay. Is that better?
Philip Malderi: No, you have to speak loud.
Belle [Caller]: Oh, hello. This is Belle, and I’m so excited to talk to Rachel. Rachel, you are a pioneer leading outside the rubric of brains, IQ and EQ. Thank you so very much.
My question is, Rachel, have you ever considered the multimodality learning for Deaf teaching?
Rachel Zemach: Can you explain what you mean? What do you mean by multimodality?
Belle [Caller]: Thank you. I was kidnapped for seven years and I had to learn how to speak through multi-sensors in my brain. I kept finding myself being misinterpreted but also having difficult challenges to communicate. I found a huge chasm missing in education but also in the social atmosphere.
Philip Malderi: Belle, I think that you’re going into an area that Rachel is not an expert in and I very much appreciate your story, but I think we’re going to move on to the next caller because I don’t think that either Rachel or I really are experts in what you’re talking about.
Rachel Zemach: I just want to add it sounds like you’ve been through a lot, and I wish you all the best.
Philip Malderi: Okay, let’s go next to Peter in San Francisco. Peter, you’re on the air.
Peter [Caller]: Thank you for this fascinating program. I have an observation and a question.
It seems to me from where I’ve spent a lot of time in New York City and California, there are a lot of bilingual or even multilingual people—kids as well as adults—and it’s not unusual. We often even see kids translating for their parents. I am curious about a difference for a Deaf child who enters a hearing family or is born in one, or what about kids who are born into a Deaf family, but they are hearing? I’m curious about those experiences, and I’m wondering if we could have an example of the different structure and tone, as you mentioned, of ASL versus English. And I’m also curious how do people function in getting information if you’re Deaf and most of the information, say, in America, is provided by books and newspapers and magazines and so on in English?
Rachel Zemach: Hmm, well Deaf people transmit information among themselves. That’s one thing that goes on everywhere, it’s not just in the United States. For example, I read an article about India, about trains in India that go from one part of the country to the other, and Deaf people meet on these trains. There’s, I guess, one of the main train lines in some areas of India—I won’t pretend to know where it is exactly—but Deaf people gather on these trains and they have an hour or two to chat with each other. They share information about jobs, about housing, about life. It’s not unlike here. Here we used to have deaf clubs where people would come together to socialize for hours and hours. Not just socialize but share information.
As for children of Deaf parents and children of hearing parents, that’s a very big question, and I have too much to say about it to answer.
Peter [Caller]: So then maybe I should ask you about the role of interpreters, and being an interpreter is a profession. People earn a living being an interpreter.
Rachel Zemach: Absolutely. Interpreting is a profession. And many children of Deaf adults (CODAs) find themselves in an interpreting role, and some have written wonderful books about their experiences as CODAs, but there also are many Deaf parents who don’t want their children to be their interpreters. They don’t want to put their child in that position of not being able to just be a kid.
And things can happen! Things can go wrong when a child is interpreting, for example, if their teacher is trying to tell their parents about something bad the child did at school, but the child is the one with all the power. A lot can go wrong!
Philip Malderi: (Laughing.) I’m thinking of what I would do in that situation is not translate the bad parts. Let’s go to another caller. We’re almost out of time. Up next is Michael in Berkeley. Michael, you’re on the air.
Michael [Caller]: Yes, thank you. I don’t want to go off on a wrong road, but I have a question. I moved into an old folks’ home a year and a half ago, and I was introduced or saw a person who was from a very early age in a deteriorated position as far as his speech and hearing.
But this man has weaponized his—I’m going to say—disability. I hope that’s the right term. And he’s a thoroughly disagreeable person, he spits, and he’s very angry and resentful. He causes noise at night for those—
Philip Malderi: Okay, I think we get the picture, Michael.
Michael [Caller]: So, does the disability somehow segue with some people becoming very cranky, at least? And is there any person or is there a specialist to work with people? Should they still work?
Rachel Zemach: Okay. So, am I understanding you correctly that the question is if his grumpiness is related to him having a disability? Wow, what a great question. I would say yes and no. It sounds like he has reason to be grumpy and it might be his living conditions or the moment he finds himself in his life and how he feels about it, and having a disability probably makes his life harder. And we’re human, we have feelings. When life gets harder, we react. And we’re not always nice about it. But it also sounds like it’s his personality. Many other people probably with the exact same disability don’t respond that way.
Philip Malderi: Let’s try to squeeze in one last caller. David in Santa Cruz. Be as brief as you can because we’re almost out of time.
David [Caller]: Hi, Rachel. This is David in Santa Cruz. I just wanted to ask if you could speak a little bit about your passion and inspiration. I’m thinking about Lazlo.
Philip Malderi: Lazlo is a Deaf child that is discussed in the book, but I am really looking at the clock and realizing we don’t have time to do justice. Do you want to say briefly something about Lazlo?
Rachel Zemach: I’ll just say, hello, David. Thank you for caring about Lazlo even a fraction of as much as I did (choking up a bit) and do, because he was a wonderful, wonderful boy. And for any listeners, please read the book to get to know him. And to understand what David is asking me.
Philip Malderi: Okay. Well, the cruelty of society is very clear in what happened to Lazlo. The name of the book is The Butterfly Cage: Joy, Heartache and Corruption Teaching While Deaf in California Public Schools, a memoir by Rachel Zemach.
And I really want to thank you very much for coming in and joining us today. You can find the book at Unrulyvoices.com. Many thanks to you, Rachel.
Rachel Zemach: I appreciate being here very much. The book is also at Barnes & Noble and Amazon.
Philip Malderi: Many thanks to Anna for doing the interpretation. Do take care, have a great day, and I’ll be back next Sunday. As usual, do stay tuned for across the great divide coming your way next here on KPFA.