In a powerful episode of Hard Knock Radio, host Davey D sat down with Dorsey Nunn, the co-founder of “All of Us or None,” to discuss his memoir “What Kind of Bird Can’t Fly: A Memoir of Resilience and Resurrection.” The conversation was an in-depth exploration of Nunn’s life, his activism, and the systemic issues faced by formerly incarcerated individuals.
### Discussing “The Bird That Couldn’t Fly” Memoir
Davey D began the conversation by praising the engaging nature of Nunn’s memoir, comparing its impact to Malcolm X’s autobiography. He highlighted the vividness and relatability of Nunn’s journey from East Palo Alto to prison and back, noting that it should be required reading for many. Nunn revealed that he was initially reluctant to write the book, but was encouraged by his colleague Manuel to share his story to ensure it was told accurately. He emphasized that his life has been a continuous journey of resilience, paralleling many of the themes discussed in his letters from the 1970s.
### Dorsey’s Journey to Voting Rights Advocacy
Nunn shared the profound impact of letters from a friend in prison, which discussed topics like voting rights. These letters inspired him to campaign for voting rights for people in county jail and on parole. Reflecting on his childhood in Menlo Park, a predominantly white area that experienced blockbusting due to his family’s move, Nunn emphasized the importance of sharing his story to prevent misconceptions and to shed light on the systemic issues faced by Black communities.
### Formerly Incarcerated Voices and Challenges
The conversation highlighted the importance of formerly incarcerated individuals sharing their experiences as a political force. Nunn, despite not having a law degree, was offered the role of executive director at a public legal service office. He discussed the successes of the organization he led and the need to challenge dominant narratives that defer to individuals with formal education. Davey D noted how formerly incarcerated individuals have become a significant political force, demanding the right to speak in their own voice and challenging the language used to dehumanize them.
### Discussing Michelle Alexander’s Impact and Restoration of Rights
Davey D and Nunn spoke about Michelle Alexander, a Stanford law professor, and her influential book, **”The New Jim Crow.”** Nunn shared his experiences in Alexander’s class and her recognition of his story. He emphasized Alexander’s impact on the restoration of women’s rights and her acknowledgment of Susan Burton. Nunn also discussed the importance of distributing books by Black authors in Black communities and his efforts to introduce Alexander to various communities in California. Davey D echoed Nunn’s sentiments, highlighting the significance of Alexander’s message.
### Discussing Original Sources, Transparency, and Resilience
The participants delved into the importance of acknowledging original sources of ideas, transparency in academic research, and making substantive works accessible to a broader audience. Nunn shared how recognizing structural discrimination and substantive writings impacted his life. His memoir, based on personal letters and diary entries, portrays issues related to race and policy in the Bay Area. The discussion also covered Nunn’s experiences as a young Black man incarcerated in the 1970s and the lasting effects on his life.
### Discriminatory Tactics and Black Communities
Davey D and Nunn discussed discriminatory tactics like blockbusting and redlining used by real estate agents against Black communities. Nunn shared his experience in San Mateo County, where few Black officials have been elected historically. Despite rising property values from gentrification, he held onto his home, rejecting offers that aimed to displace the Black community. Concerns about Facebook’s role in erasing Black heritage were also raised.
### Powerful Individuals, Enclaves, and Transistor Radios
The conversation touched on the impact of powerful individuals and the impoverishment of neighborhoods in the 1960s and 70s. Nunn mentioned Mark Zuckerberg as a modern example and discussed the development of the transistor radio, highlighting Hewlett Packard’s role. Nunn expressed regret for not recording a conversation with Angela Davis and Michelle Alexander, where Davis acknowledged Ruchell Magee. The discussion concluded with the concept of returning to the community as an asset rather than a liability.
### Banned Books, Prisons, and Political Education
Davey D and Nunn discussed the suppression of political education in prisons, a practice Nunn experienced firsthand, leading to solitary confinement. They drew parallels between historical issues and current efforts to remove progressive district attorneys like Pamela Price, with undercover cops and paid signature gatherers involved in the campaign against her. The conversation highlighted the legacy of slavery and questioned the persistence of rules restricting reading in prisons.
### Dorsey’s Advocacy, Civil Rights, and Creativity Discussion
Nunn shared his journey as the first intern at legal services for prisoners with children and his advocacy for restoring civil rights for the incarcerated. He discussed the success of his organization in securing voting rights for formerly incarcerated individuals. The conversation also touched on the undervaluation of creativity and innovation within marginalized communities and the exploitation of such creativity by those in power, highlighting broader societal implications.
### Dorsey’s Building Purchase, Non-Profit, and Book
Nunn shared his experiences with purchasing a building, the challenges he faced, and the importance of community benefits agreements. He discussed selling part of the building to a non-profit and emphasized themes of resilience and redemption in his book. The conversation concluded with Nunn’s plans to distribute his book to incarcerated individuals and an open invitation for continued discussions.
### Key Quotes and Insights
1. **Davey D on Nunn’s Memoir:** “Remind me of Malcolm X’s book…living the things that you’re describing. It’s a remarkable one and, in my opinion, should probably be required reading for a lot of folks.”
2. **Dorsey Nunn on Writing His Story:** “If I didn’t tell my story, somebody else would.”
3. **Nunn on Advocacy:** “We demand the right to speak in our own voice.”
4. **Michelle Alexander’s Impact:** “Not only did I always respect her, but she sent me the galley copy of her book…I couldn’t get out of the room because I was so fixated by reading her book.”
5. **Davey D on Structural Discrimination:** “It’s hard to challenge a narrative if you don’t have the language in which to challenge it.”
6. **Nunn on Community Impact:** “At any given time, we could have re-enfranchised more people than were ever enfranchised since the 1964 Civil Rights Act.”
7. **Nunn on Real Estate Tactics:** “Real estate brokers telling white people they are going to lose the value of their property…at a certain point, 5 years after I was in kindergarten, they held a hearing in San Francisco that started talking about covenants.”
### Conclusion
The conversation between Davey D and Dorsey Nunn was a powerful testament to resilience, advocacy, and the importance of sharing personal stories to challenge dominant narratives and promote social justice. The memoir, **”The Bird That Couldn’t Fly,”** serves as a significant contribution to understanding the systemic issues faced by formerly incarcerated individuals and the ongoing fight for civil rights.
Hard Knock Radio is a drive-time Hip-Hop talk show on KPFA (94.1fm @ 4-5 pm Monday-Friday), a community radio station without corporate underwriting, hosted by Davey D and Anita Johnson.
