A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.
Return is the theme for APEX Express as Host Miko Lee talks with artists from APAture, Kearny Street Workshops annual celebration of emerging artists from the Bay Area. Miko also speaks with exiled Hong Kong activist Nathan Law about the new documentary film “Who’s Afraid of Nathan Law.”
Special Thanks to Jose Ng for insight into the Hong Kong movement for democracy.
For more information about the subjects in tonight’s show:
APAture, KSW – October 13 to November 9th venues throughout the Bay Area
Jalena Keane-Lee and her film: Standing Above the Clouds
- playing October 12 Mill Valley Film Festival
- October 22 Roxie Cinema – APAture
- playing October 13, DNA Lounge – APAture
Kim Requesto
performing November 3, Joe Goode Anex – APAture
Who’s Afraid of Nathan Law playing on POV
Return Show Transcript
Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the Apex Express.
Miko Lee: [00:00:38] Welcome to Apex Express. I’m your host Miko Lee and tonight our subject is return, which is the theme of the 25th annual APAture Kearny Street Workshop Annual Festival. It’s running October 13th through November 9th, and there’s going to be six showcases in venues across San Francisco. We’re going to put a link in our show notes at kpfa.com backslash program apex. We’re going to hear from three of the featured artists; filmmaker, Jalena Keane-Lee, dancer, Kim Requesto, and musician, Ian Santillano. Then we speak with someone who cannot return to his Homeland, exiled Hong Kong activist, Nathan Law. First off, we’re going to check in with my usual co-host as PowerLeeGirls and my always daughter, filmmaker Jalena Keane-Lee. Good evening and welcome to Apex Express. Tonight On Apex Express, we’re talking with my daughter, Jalena Keane-Lee, and usual co host, but tonight we’re going to be talking with Jalena as a filmmaker. Welcome, Jalena, to Apex Express as a guest.
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:01:48] Thank you so much for having me.
Miko Lee: [00:01:50] And I would like to talk with you about APAture, Kearny Street Workshop’s annual festival. This year, you’re one of several artists that are getting a showcase. The theme for this year is around Return. Can you tell us what return means to you and what you will be presenting at APAture?
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:02:11] Yes, so the theme for Kearny Street Workshop’s APAture festival this year is Return and I am the featured artist for the film showcase, which is such an honor and I’m really excited about that. And I’ve screened previous work there in the past—short films, but it was really yeah, such an honor and privilege to be asked to be the featured artist this year. And I’ll be playing my first feature documentary, which is called Standing Above the Clouds. And it follows native Hawai’ian mother-daughter activists that are standing to protect their sacred mountain called Mauna Kea from the building of a massive 30 meter telescope. And the film chronicles intergenerational healing and how to build and sustain a movement. And so I hope people come to see it and it will also be playing with a series of short films from other Asian American and Pacific Islander filmmakers. And the film showcase is October 22nd at 6 PM at the Roxy Theater in the Mission. To me, the theme of return, it’s, it reminds me a lot of, I think last year’s theme too, which I think was homecoming. And just thinking about, you know, returning to yourself, returning to your ancestors, returning to your sacred land. Standing Above the Clouds is all about the movement to protect Mauna Kea, which is one of the most sacred places in all of Oceania. And the highest peak in the world from the seafloor. And the summit of the mountain stands at 14,000 feet and it’s also tied to Native Hawai’ian genealogy and seen as the ancestor of the people. And so the film is really all about that place that you want to return to, that place that represents, you know, home and spirituality and is an anchor and a training ground and a teacher and a leader and so many other things that, you know, our sacred places are and that they teach us. And really about, you know, protecting that space and making sure that that’s a place that future generations will be able to return to. And also reflecting and processing all the ways and all the times that you have returned there and what that has taught you and brought into your life.
Miko Lee: [00:04:26] So this festival runs for multiple weeks. It actually is at the Roxy and at DNA Lounge and at the Joe Goode Annex and at Arc Gallery and Studios. We’re also in the show featuring Kim Requesto, who is one of the performing artists that’s featured, and then music by, the musical guest, which is Ian Santillano. And Jalena, tell me about, are you getting a chance to communicate with all the other artists and to be able to work with the other artists that are part of this festival?
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:04:58] It’s the 25th year of the APAture Festival and there’s a lot of really cool events for artists. I know they had a kind of orientation event and they had headshot opportunity to like get your headshot taken there. I unfortunately was out of town, so I was not able to make it and have that opportunity to mix and mingle with the other artists. But I’m excited to go to some of the events, as they happen. And there’s a bunch of different showcases for, like, each different discipline. Mine is film, and then there’s visual arts, music, performing arts, I believe.
Miko Lee: [00:05:33] Were you at Kearny Street Workshop last year as well? You were part of APAture last year as well.
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:05:38] Yes, I was.
Miko Lee: [00:05:40] How many years have you participated?
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:05:43] I think I’ve participated three years, but yeah, as I said before, this is my first time being a featured artist, so that’s very special. And I know it’s the 25th year of the APAture Arts Showcase, and that it’s the oldest running Asian American arts showcase in the US.
Miko Lee: [00:06:03] And if folks aren’t able to make this amazing APAture event, where else can they see your film Standing Above the Clouds?
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:06:10] My film will also be available through the Mill Valley Film Festival on October 12th, and it’s going to play at the San Rafael Film Center at 3pm on the 12th, and then I’ll also be leading a workshop on October 19th. It’s a teen documentary filmmaking and activism workshop, which should be really fun. And that’s with SF Film, and we’ll be at their location, Filmhouse, on, yeah, October 19th. And we should be having more screenings coming up, so if you’re interested in, you know, following along with the film, you can find us at Standing Above the Clouds on Instagram and Facebook, and standingabovetheclouds.com. And we’ll post our screenings and different opportunities. You can also request a screening for your organization or group or school. And we’ll be implementing our screening tour and impact plans in the next few years as well. And you can follow me at Jalena.KL on Instagram and other platforms as well and I post about it too. And you can also follow at Protect Mauna Kea, if you want to keep up to date with the movement to protect Mauna Kea. And there is a petition, a change.org petition to sign to push for the stopping of the telescope, which is currently still trying to be built, even though there has been over a decade of indigenous resistance and resistance that we see as successful because they have been able to stall the telescope up until this point. But yes, there’s a change.org petition that you can sign that is @protectmaunakea and also @standingabovetheclouds in both of their linkinbios.
Miko Lee: [00:07:46] Thank you. And we’ll put links to all of those in the show notes for Apex Express. So I know that you’ve been touring with the film to different cities and indeed different countries. And I’m wondering if you have felt a different reception based on the places you’ve been to from Toronto to Seattle to Los Angeles. What has been, what has stood out to you as you’ve toured this film to different locations?
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:08:06] Yeah, it’s been such a blessing to be able to bring the film across the world. And I think we’re really excited to we’re bringing the film home to Hawai’i with the Hawai’i International Film Festival, and then also home to the Bay Area with APAture and Mill Valley. So it’s really nice to have this, you know, homecoming and return, so to speak, to the places where, you know, the film is from. And touring it around, I think it’s been really beautiful just seeing all the like resonance and the connections across other lines of difference with different activists, different local activists, whether it is in Toronto, or Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, or Seattle, And one thing that has been a really beautiful reflection from audiences is that the film is a representation of hope and that, you know, it’s a realistic portrait of organizing and movement building, which certainly is not, you know, always glamorous or easy, but one that shows the beauty of the struggle and the beauty of being in community and pushing towards something and how being in movement spaces, you know, can shape and heal and revive different parts of who you are.
Miko Lee: [00:09:16] Can you talk a little bit about what healing means to you in relationship with social justice work?
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:09:22] Standing Above the Clouds, it is about, you know, healing. And Havane, who’s one of the main protagonists of the film, she has a really great line in the film, that is we don’t just have to heal from this work, we heal through it too. And I think that speaks a lot to what it means to heal in movement spaces and part of the intergenerational healing that we show in the film is, you know, our, our parents generation, and this kind of older generation of women who really paved the way, and who didn’t have the opportunity to really take breaks or care for themselves and their own bodies, oftentimes, and there just wasn’t really any other option or it wasn’t really a choice. And in the film we can see passing down to the next generation and wanting people to be able to have the opportunity to care for themselves and to, you know, have boundaries around their time and their energy and show up in these spaces when they feel completely ready and that being something that the kind of mother generation wants to pass down to the younger generation and also something that the younger generation is able to point out. In the older generation and see for themselves and I think that really plays into movement sustainability and healing is such an important part of creating movements that can be sustainable and that won’t just burn people out and then kind of, you know, fizzle and fall away. So making sure that we have the space to heal and in all the different ways, like through tears, through laughter, through joy. I think is such an important part and also letting movements and work for social justice heal us and have, you know, a positive impact on us and teach us about ourselves.
Miko Lee: [00:11:19] Thank you for sharing that. I just finished reading the amazing Healing Justice Lineages book by Erica Woodard and Cara Page, and you and I just went to see Cara’s exhibit about the impact of the medical industrial complex. And one of the things both Cara and Erica talk about in the book is ancestral technologies and the impact that ancestral technologies can have on healing us and the next generation. And I resonated with that so much being the mother age obviously of you, but also of the women in Standing Above the Clouds. And I’m wondering if you have thoughts on ancestral technologies that you grew up with, or that you felt like you learned from being involved with this filmmaking process for so long.
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:12:08] That’s a really, ooh that’s such an interesting point. I think in the film, the ancestral technology that comes to mind immediately is oli or chanting, and that is like, you know, an ancient Hawai’ian way of recording knowledge and passing down information and also praying. And, in the film, it’s talked about in a few different places, how that is an ancient technology and how we only know the things that we know today, because someone passed it down orally as an oli or as a chant. And a really, a really beautiful thing about the process of making the film was being able to, to witness that and also to learn oli myself, and also to learn that Havane and Auntie Pua, who are two of the main protagonists in the film, they both write a lot of oli too. So it’s an ancestral technology that’s still very much alive and breathing in the present day. And I think that’s so beautiful and that yeah, I hope with, you know, all of our different ancestral technologies that we access and learn about at different times that we also can see them as things that are like ever changing and kept current in the present.
Miko Lee: [00:13:29] And what would you like people to walk away with after seeing Standing Above the Clouds?
Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:13:34] I want people to walk away feeling and believing that collective liberation is possible. And that the worlds that we want to create that are centered on care, that don’t discriminate based on, you know, any lines of difference, are possible. And it’s our responsibility to enact those worlds and protect the things that are sacred to us and important to us. And I want people to walk away thinking about, you know, their own mom and thinking about the importance of sisterhood and community. And I want people to walk away wanting to call their best friend or their mom or reconnect with someone and talk about how it made them feel and what they want to do and what they want to stand for in their own communities. Yeah, I also want people to walk away, you know, fired up about protecting Mauna Kea and other sacred places and signing the petition to stop the 30 meter telescope, which we’ll link in the show notes.
Miko Lee: [00:14:44] Thank you so much for joining us.
Next up, listen to APAture feature musician, Ian Santillano. Ian is a Filipino American singer songwriter multi-instrumentalist and producer from Hayward, California. So check out his song, “End of the Earf.”
MUSIC
That was APAture featured musician Ian Santillano with “End of the Earf.” Now let’s check in with dancer Kim Requesto. Kim, welcome to Apex Express.
Kim Requesto: [00:18:12] Hi Miko, thank you so much for having me.
Miko Lee: [00:18:20] I’m starting first with my question I love asking all people: Kim, tell me about who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?
Kim Requesto: [00:18:26] I was born in the Philippines and I immigrated to the US when I was three years old, but my entire life has been in the Bay Area. A lot of it has been informed by my family and what we’ve brought over from the Philippines, and that is a lot of dance and specifically Philippine folk dance, because both of my parents were actually dancers. I continue to share Philippine folkloric dance. And I’ve gotten deeper into that practice by doing research with different indigenous communities in the Philippines. My legacy, I feel, has expanded beyond just the stories of my family and the stories that I come from, but also, the dances and music and culture of the different indigenous communities that I’ve created connections and relationships with in the Philippines. And then of course, how I’ve been able to share that with the community here in the Bay Area, and also in the diaspora.
Miko Lee: [00:19:32] Thank you. Kim, you’re a multidisciplinary artist. I know you do dance and photography and music and sharing this cultural traditions. Can you tell us a little bit about what you’ll be sharing during APAture?
Kim Requesto: [00:19:45] Yes, of course. So what I hope to share during APAture is more of my performance work. Showcasing movement that I’ve learned while doing research in the Philippines and honing in on Philippine dance and the various traditional dance styles from the different communities in the Philippines. But also, a lot of my work is also involving my experience as someone who’s grown up in the Bay area. The work that I’m presenting is really around my experience as a Filipinx American and sharing that through movement that is not just traditional, not necessarily contemporary, but a mixture and a fusion of both. I also do hope to share specifically traditional movement, just because to honor the people I’ve worked with in the Philippines they requested, you know, before people see this fusion part, it’s important that they know what the traditional part looks like as well. I’m really excited to share dance and also some music and I’m part of the Performing Diaspora residency at CounterPulse so I’ll be previewing a small work in progress that’ll be showcased in December. But I’m really looking forward to just sharing movement with others, and also sharing the stage with the other artists who’s part of the festival.
Miko Lee: [00:21:09] I love that. I used to study traditional Japanese noh and kyogen, and I remember one of the things that the elders used to talk about is you’re not allowed to derivate from the form until you have the traditional forms down absolutely and understand what they are in your bones. And I feel like that’s what your elders are saying, too. Showcase the traditional work so that the fusion work makes sense to other folks.
Kim Requesto: [00:21:34] Mhmm. And it’s also, I think, just to honor the cultures back in the Philippines, just to honor them as well. Because within, in my work, I do feel that it’s important that there’s a way for me to also uplift what they’ve taught me and then not just like what I’ve been doing. [Laughs] So yeah, I guess similar to, to what your elders said too, or I guess in this sense, both of our elders.
Miko Lee: [00:22:02] Yeah, I’m wondering how this fits with the theme of APAture this year, which is Return. Kearny Street Workshop says, from the Palestinian right to return, the call for the indigenous land back movement, the various migrant histories and struggles for justice in our Pacific Islander and Asian communities, and the returns we face in our personal lives. So what does return mean to you? And how is this going to showcase in the work that you’re presenting?
Kim Requesto: [00:22:28] For myself, returning means finding our truth. At least to me in this present day and age [laughs] of my life, it’s really finding that truth or finding our truth and being able to also share and connect with others. The theme of returning also is being able to connect and understand, not just the histories that we’ve experienced, but also the histories that our bodies have experienced. I guess the way we’ll be seeing it in what I’m going to be sharing with everyone is really looking through the lens of movement and how I fuse my experiences as someone who is Filipino, but also who is positioned here in the Bay Area. And being able to also find my truth in that movement, because even though a lot of the movement I’ll be showcasing is from the southern part of the Philippines, I’m sharing it here in the Bay Area. And also to fuse it with my experience as someone who has grown up in San Francisco. There’s a different positionalities in that. My movement is also different. I think in that idea of fusion and in the idea of also learning traditional movement, but also understanding my positionality and my body and my identity and fusing that together. It’s the idea of finding, going back to finding my truth and you know, for me, it’s like finding that in movement.
Miko Lee: [00:24:01] Thank you so much. My last question is, what are you reading, watching, or listening to? Is there something that is sparking your imagination right now?
Kim Requesto: [00:24:11] What I’m listening to, it’s a lot of like melodic, soft, instrumental music. I’m back at a period of wanting to listen to jazz or to even like classical music. And it’s just been helping me breathe and I think breathing, being able to find rest, being able to find like calm. Especially since I think for my personal life, I’m getting busy. Being able to rest gives me a lot of like opportunity to be creative after I’ve rested. So yeah. I think listening to music that makes me happy has been really great for me finding calmness and happiness. If I had to name an artist, it would be Olivia Dean grooves. Yes.
Miko Lee: [00:25:01] Thank you. Is there anything else you’d like to add?
Kim Requesto: [00:25:04] I’m just really looking forward to APAture this year and seeing everything from all the different artists and disciplines. I think having a space in APAture with Kearny Street Workshop and just being able to continue to share art with, like, the community. The greater Bay Area community is such a privilege because it really does feel like a place where people can connect with other artists and also audience members, and I’m just really thankful to APAture and to KSW and also just thank you, Miko, for talking with me.
Miko Lee: [00:25:37] Thanks so much. I look forward to seeing your work at APAture this year. Thanks, Kim.
Kim Requesto: [00:25:42] Thanks, Miko.
Miko Lee: [00:25:43] You’re listening to apex express on 94.1, KPFA Berkeley, 89.3, KPF B in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and [email protected]. Once again, we hear from APAture featured musician Ian Ian Santillano with “Movin’ Nowhere.”
MUSIC
That was APAture featured musician Ian Santillano with “Movin’ Nowhere.”
Finally tonight, I speak with the person who is unable to return to his Homeland, Hong Kong activist, Nathan Law. And I also speak with filmmaker Joe Piscatella. Nathan Law was one of the student leaders during the 79 day Umbrella Movement in 2014. He is also the founder and former chair of Demosisto a new political party derived from the 2014 protests. And now he is an exile in London. I speak with both Nathan Law and documentary filmmaker, Joe Piscatella.
Today we’re speaking about the documentary film Who’s Afraid of Nathan Law, and I’m so thrilled that we have with us both the filmmaker and Nathan Law himself. So Nathan, I want to start with you. First off, this is a question I ask many guests. Can you please tell me who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?
Nathan Law: [00:31:26] Yeah, thank you so much for the invitation, Miko. This movie is about the struggle of Hong Kong’s democratic movement. As we all know, there’s been decades of the Hong Kong democratic movement, in which we fight for the right to elect our leaders and universal suffrage. And this is deeply embedded into our culture because we often see Hong Kong as somewhere the East meets the West. The East is of course, the Chinese heritage, our culture, our languages. But, the Western part is that there’s a big part of it that’s about freedom, liberty, and the democratic way of life. So, the fight for democracy in Hong Kong has been deeply ingrained in our culture and becomes essential part of who we are. So this movie is about my story, but it’s also a reflection of the way of life of Hong Kong people and what are the struggles and difficulties that they’ve been through and how the city of Hong Kong is being demolished by the authoritarian regime, Chinese Communist Party.
Miko Lee: [00:32:29] Nathan thanks so much. I love that you gave a little blip about what the film is about, which is powerful. I was lucky to have a chance to be able to see it, but Nathan, I’m wondering about you personally, who are your people and for you, what do you carry? Like, what’s your earliest memory of social justice?
Nathan Law: [00:32:47] For me, I grew up in Hong Kong, but I was born in mainland China. So I moved to Hong Kong when I was six. I lived in the most blue collar neighborhood. I lived in public housing. My father was a construction worker and my mother was a cleaner. So when I grew up, I was not taught about social justice or democracy. My parents had the mentality that I call refugee mentality, which they only want their kids to get into a good school and get a good job and don’t rock the boat. So I’ve not been encouraged to do anything that I’m currently doing. But, in my high school, I had a political enlightenment moment, which inspired me to get into the arena of activism in college. So when I was in high school, I learned about Liu Xiaobo the Chinese human rights activist who got the Nobel Peace Prize in 2010, and the stories of Tiananmen Massacre, which was a tragedy in 1989 when there were so many workers and students, they fought for China’s democracy, and then they were brutally massacred, and there were hundreds to thousands of people died because of the crackdown. So all these moments make me feel like, as a college student and as a half intellectual, I had responsibility to engage in social affairs and be involved in social activism. So that was the start of my story and the people, my people, certainly people of Hong Kong and those people who have the pursuit of freedom and democracy.
Miko Lee: [00:34:33] Thanks, Nathan. And filmmaker Joe Piscatella, can you tell us how you got the first inspiration to create this documentary around the Umbrella Movement and around Nathan?
Joe Piscatella: [00:34:44] Sure. So, in 2017 my team and I made a film prior to this called Joshua: Teenager vs. Superpower and that film documents the rise of Joshua Wong in the national education movement and then through the Umbrella movement and that film won Sundance in 2017 and is still currently on Netflix. And when we were looking to do our next film we realized one, the story of Hong Kong was, was continuing. There was more story to tell as the 2019 anti extradition protests were happening, and we wanted to be able to tell that story until the next chapter. And we also were so impressed. When we were making the Joshua Wong film, we were so impressed with Nathan. We were moved by his story, we were moved by his passion, we were all inspired by what he was doing. And we realized, hey, Nathan has a phenomenal story to tell in his own right. Let’s tell the story of Hong Kong through the lens of Nathan Law.
Miko Lee: [00:35:48] Thank you. And Nathan, what was the decision making factor that you decided to go along with being part of this documentary film?
Nathan Law: [00:35:58] First of all, Joe and I and the other film crew, we had a connection when the Joshua Wong documentary, uh, was being produced. So I had already had the opportunity to work with them. I think, for the team, they’re not only just producing, like, a documentary, But they genuinely do care about human rights and the story of Hong Kong and the struggles. So I think that gave a huge confidence to me and my fellow Hong Kong activists that they’re definitely going to tell a story that make more people to understand what we are struggling and the fight for democracy. So I think this is a great collaboration and I think this documentary encapsulates past 10 years of my life and pretty much, the struggles to democracy and I think that that has a lot of reflection on it, but also like a lot of Hong Kong people would echo what was being covered in the documentary, because my life is pretty much also the lives of many other Hong Kong people being through all these big times, democratic struggles and ending up needing to leave their hometown and to resettle in somewhere else.
Miko Lee: [00:37:14] Thank you. It’s really enlightening, especially for someone like me who is fifth generation Chinese American, does not speak Chinese, and it’s very hard to actually get any kind of, you know, quote unquote, accurate information about what’s happening in Hong Kong and the activist movement. How would you suggest people get accurate news of what’s happening in Hong Kong?
Nathan Law: [00:37:37] For now, it’s extremely difficult because the press freedom in Hong Kong is being squashed. There have been a multiple actions taken by the government that they disbanded, the most free and crowd sourced and critical news outlets to the Chinese regime. And for now, most of the media in Hong Kong have to follow the orders of the government and only express certain point of view that do not upset Beijing. So we don’t have much room, but still we have some very small independent media that they can still operate with a very limited resources, for example, Hong Kong Free Press. This is one channel that we can get more impartial news. But at the end of the day, there has been a vacuum of independent journalism, and that is in, like, intentionally made by the government because the government doesn’t want information to be circulated. They want to control the narratives and the information that people know. And by controlling it, they can effectively push forward the propaganda. So that is a predicament of Hong Kong people. And we do want more genuine independent journalism, but the reality of Hong Kong doesn’t allow.
Miko Lee: [00:39:04] And Joe, how is this film being released in Asia? What’s the reception to this film in Asia?
Joe Piscatella: [00:39:12] The film has not been released yet in Asia. it is about to, it actually premieres tonight, on PBS, on, POV on PBS, and then it’ll stream at pbs.org/POV for the foreseeable future. So I have not gotten what the reaction is yet in Asia to this film.
Miko Lee: [00:39:33] Okay, we’ll have to wait and see. It is exciting that people can have easy access to be able to see the film on public broadcasting, at least in the United States, and we’ll wait and see what happens in Asia. Nathan, you are now, with Political Asylum living in London, and I’m wondering how you practice activism there in Hong Kong when you are living in London.
Nathan Law: [00:39:56] When the political crackdown in Hong Kong took place. The activism in the diaspora community becomes much more important because we can say something that you cannot say in Hong Kong and we can raise awareness by interacting with foreign government officials and international NGOs. If you do it in Hong Kong under the restriction of the national security law now, by meeting, for example, a congressman in the US, you can easily be incarcerated and be sentenced to years of imprisonment in Hong Kong. That is how strict the political sentiment there. And also if you speak about critical things towards the government or express supportive statement to the 2019, protest, you will also be targeted, sentenced, and maybe ended up in months or years in the prison. So we’ve had all these court cases where people only do peaceful advocacy work without inciting violence or committing violence, but they are being thrown to jail because of speech. And it’s common to have speech crime in Hong Kong. So the diaspora community shoulders certain responsibility to speak out all those demands and, and the push for Hong Kong and China’s democracy. So for me, in London, there’s been a growing population of Hong Kong people because of the fact that people voted with their feet, there has been a exodus of Hong Kong people for now that’s already been more than 200,000 of them that have come to the UK because of the worsening liberty situation in Hong Kong. And with that many amounts of people we have a lot of community and cultural events. One of the biggest goal is to preserve the story and the history and the identity of Hong Kong people, which is being erased in Hong Kong actively by the government.
Miko Lee: [00:42:02] And what’s going on with the Umbrella Movement now? Like I said, it’s very hard for us outside of your film to get information about what is happening right now. Can you give us an update?
Nathan Law: [00:42:14] Yeah, the Umbrella Movement was the occupation movement 10 years ago in pursuit for democracy. It’s been 10 years, but I think its legacy is still impacting Hong Kong. It’s the very first civil disobedience movement in a massive scale in Hong Kong. There were hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong people camping in the BCS runway in order to fight for a free and democratic society. Fast forward five years ago, there was a big, anti extradition law protest in Hong Kong in 2019 to 2020. It was the latest big uprising of Hong Kong people where you encounter much more ferocious and militant protests. And of course, it triggered a series of response from the government, which includes the implementation of the national security law, which in effect curtailed the city’s freedom and civil society. So, it’s been 10 years. We had more optimistic outlook of Hong Kong 10 years ago. But for now, the situation in Hong Kong is really bad, as I mentioned. Speech crime is in place, civil liberties and individual freedoms are being heavily restricted, civil society is disbanded. Some of the interviewees in the documentary, including my dearest friend, Joshua Wong, and Gwyneth Ho, they are now being in jail for more than three and a half years just because of joining a primary election, which is the thing that all democratic countries do, but in Hong Kong, it becomes a crime. And they are expecting to be sentenced, at the end of this year, to up to five to ten years of imprisonment just because they do, they do the exact same thing that other politicians in democratic countries do. So this is a really sad reality that we’ve put up so much effort, so much sacrifices to the democratic movement, but for now, as the Chinese regime is just so powerful. So it’s difficult for us to get some progress in our democracy.
Miko Lee: [00:44:32] Is there anything that folks over here that believe and want to support the movement? Is there anything that we can do to help support the folks that are incarcerated or support the movement?
Nathan Law: [00:44:44] First of all, attention and support is really important. So by spreading words of the theme or the current situation of Hong Kong, it helps a lot. And of course we need more representative in the hill to push over Hong Kong agenda and there are a few bills about advancing Hong Kong’s advocacy in the hill that’s being discussed. Those are the things that we can write to our representative and ask them for support. But at the end of the day, it’s also that the struggle of Hong Kong is a puzzle, a piece of puzzle in a broad picture of the struggles against authoritarianism and autocracy. We’ve been through a decade or two of democratic decline around the world and Hong Kong was part of it. So one thing to raise awareness of the issue of Hong Kong is also to protect your democracy. We are in an election year and you should do your homework, be educated, and be decided to come out to vote. This is an act of safeguarding our democracy.
Miko Lee: [00:45:52] And from your perspective as a Hong Kong person who’s now living in London, do you have thoughts on the upcoming American presidential campaign?
Nathan Law: [00:46:03] Well, of course, this is a particularly important, election as the world has been, in like a chaotic situation as we’ve seen the warfare in Ukraine, in Gaza, and also all the political crackdowns in Hong Kong and around China, and also the threat to Taiwan. So for me, as a person who dedicated myself into the fight for human rights and democracy, definitely, I do hope that people can, American people can elect someone who upholds the values that we share and is very determined to, to support Taiwan and the struggle of Hong Kong. So that would be my parameter when it comes to the US election, but at the end of the day, I’m not a US citizen, so I don’t really have a stake in this. campaign. But, yeah, I think we we need a leader that that can lead the free world and to do good things
Miko Lee: [00:47:06] And Nathan I know as an activist as a leader, you’ve gotten a lot of attention. And I know that there have been personal attacks against you for both yourself and people that are close to you, including your family members. How do you persevere through that?
Nathan Law: [00:47:26] It’s difficult to cope with the harms that that’s exerted, not only to you, but to your family, because they actually have nothing to do with everything I do. This collective punishment is evil, and it’s intentionally used to hurt you. So it’s difficult to persevere and navigate myself in these attacks, including personal attacks and also collective punishment to my family and my former colleagues. So, yeah, I think for me, it takes a lot of time to digest and to find a way to balance it. And it’s not easy. One thing that I think is great to be portrayed in the film is that for us, we are activists, we are leaders, but we’re not, we’re not invincible. We’re not without any pains and struggles. So as an activist, I think most of my time is actually being used to cope with anxiety, cope with fear, and how I can maintain as mentally healthy as possible in these political storms.
Miko Lee: [00:49:04] And how do you do that?
Nathan Law: [00:49:05] It’s not easy, yeah.
Miko Lee: [00:49:06] How do you do that, Nathan? How do you cope with the anxiety and the fear? What’s do you have a process that helps you?
Nathan Law: [00:49:16] I think first of all, you have to recognize that is it’s normal to have these emotions. This these are definitely emotions that disturb your lives, your work, but they’re normal because you are situated in an extraordinary situation and people from all corners, they want a piece of you or they want to attack you to achieve their purpose. And I think as long as you recognize it, as you, as, as long as you know that you are suffering from it, first of all, having a support group is really important for those people who understand who you are and who support you unconditionally, and also seeking professional help, no matter if it’s a therapist or a psychiatrist, those who can listen to you and, and just try out. I don’t think there is a one set of measures that fit for all, and that there is such a rich combination of how you can deal with anxiety and pressure. But I think the very first thing is you, you have to recognize that it’s normal to have these emotion. You need to seek help and you need to try them out. Otherwise, it’s difficult for the others to help you, and those who love you would also be hurt, seeing you suffering from all these negative emotions.
Miko Lee: [00:50:47] Thank you for sharing. My last question for you, Nathan, is what was it like the first time you saw the finished documentary, seeing yourself up there on the big screen? What did that feel like for you?
Nathan Law: [00:50:58] It feels extremely weird. I still cannot get around the idea that, yeah, there’s a big screen and there’s my face and there’s my voice. Even though I’ve been doing all these interviews and, and like video-taking for the past decades, it is still difficult to kind of get used to it. But also I’m, I’m glad that Joe and the team have produced a wonderful documentary. That’s been a really good reception and people are understand more about Hong Kong through the lens of my story, and I’m grateful for that. So, yeah, as long as I can introduce that film to the others, go to Q&A and chat about it, I would love to do it, and I’m really proud of the result.
Miko Lee: [00:51:52] Thank you so much. And Joe, for you as the filmmaker, what is it that you want people to understand about this film?
Joe Piscatella: [00:52:01] What I want the audiences to take away is that, yes, this is the story of Hong Kong. Yes, this is the story of Nathan Law and other activists fighting for Hong Kong. But in so many ways, this is also a story for the rest of the world. Right now, we are at a point where, you know, democracy is in peril in many parts of the world. And what I want audiences to take away from this film is, if you don’t participate in your democracy, if you do not do what you can to fight for and safeguard your freedoms. They can disappear very, very quickly.
Miko Lee: [00:52:37] Thank you very much, filmmaker Joe Piscatella and Nathan Law for talking with me about the new documentary film, Who’s Afraid of Nathan Law?, which people can catch on POV PBS. We are so happy to see the film, to see that it’s out there. I look forward to hearing more about the world’s response to this powerful work. Thank you so much.
Nathan Law: [00:53:03] Yeah, thank you, Miko.
Joe Piscatella: [00:53:05] Thank you.
Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:53:07] Let’s listen to one more song from APAture’s 2024 featured musician Ian Santillano. This is
“Overthinkings.”
MUSIC
You just listen to Ian Santillano and Āish’s “Overthinkings.” You can check out Ian on Sunday, October 13th at the DNA Lounge for the APAture Music Showcase.
Miko Lee: [00:56:53] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee. Tonight’s show was produced by Miko Lee and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.