A 
weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.
Important Resources:
- APSC 4 Action Toolkit
- Asian Prisoner Support Committee Website | Instagram
- Purchase Arrival: Freedom Writings of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders
Transcript:
Cheryl: Good evening! You were currently tuned in to APEX Express. I’m your host Cheryl Truong, and tonight is an AACRE night. What is AACRE, you might be asking. Comprised of 11 grassroots, social justicegroups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network — AACRE — leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement building and support for Asian Americans committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX Express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.
Tonight. I have the incredible honor to introduce you all to some very special friends of mine, members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee APSC, which is also one of the 11 groups with the AACRE network. These individuals are among the most incredible people I’ve had the privilege to know. And tonight we’ll be delving it to their stories and the important initiative that they’re leading which is called #PardonAPSC4?
Their journey is not only one of immense resilience and courage, but also a Testament to the importance of community care and how community based approaches keep us safe way more than surveillance institutions or police ever will. So join us as they share their stories and also stick around to learn more about APSC’s newest anthology, Arrival: freedom, writings of Asian and Pacific Islanders, where you can actually find some of their art and writings in physical form. So to start here with us, are Maria, Peejay, Bun, and Ke who put the four in APSC4. Peejay, do you mind kicking us all off with what the #PardonAPSC4 for campaign is all about?
Peejay: So APSC 4 are staff members at APSC and we all do different work at A PSC but our primary is helping our community. In general, fighting deportation, helping folks come home and reintegrate to society and supporting them with other needs that they may have, right? Mainly just to become successful citizen and. APSC4, despite our work, we all have backgrounds in incarceration, we’re impacted, which means we’re also at risk for deportation. And the campaign is born out of a desire to keep us home to fight our own deportation. And so we need the Governor Newsom to actually issue a pardon so that we can continue to do this work and stay with our family.
Because otherwise, they would eventually, deport us. And as immigration is a very hard thing to deal with, and there’s not a lot of options, especially with folks with convictions. And pardonness for us is like mainly the only thing that can help us stay home. And APS v4 mainly is to, it’s a campaign to ask community members to support us, that mean elected official, that mean community members that you know, family members, anyone who’s willing to support us, and basically uplift our campaign as well as reach out to elected and to Governor Newsom and encourage him to pardon us so that we can stay home and do this work.
Cheryl: Thanks Peejay. You’re literally hearing about the campaign directly from the people who are leading the way. So we know about APSC 4. We’ve heard a little bit about their campaign. But I also want you all to know about the people within APSC 4. And this is very in theme, especially with APSC’s upcoming anthology Arrival, which captures stories of Asian American Pacific Islander individuals inside prisons, or who have been detained by ICE or have been recently released from ICE or prisons and as well as stories from impacted family members. So until you all get your hands on that, which is available for purchase now at Eastwind Books of Berkeley Berkeley. Which you can get at asiabookcenter.com. I would love to introduce you all to the beautiful, incredible, inspiring people of APSC 4. everyone’s nodding their head.
It’s really cute. So let’s start with,, maybe Ke, do you want to introduce yourself? Let our listeners know, who are you? Who are your people? Where do you come from?
Ke: Hi, my name is Ke Lam. My first, that’s my full name is Nip Ke Lam which means in finishing my father’s business in my language.
So I’m Chinese Vietnamese. I also am a refugee baby who came here when I was four years old to America. So my people are all the impacted folks, all the juvenile lifers. And everyone that’s trying to make a change in their life and looKeng for a second chance.
Cheryl: Thank you so much. I love that. Maria, do you want to introduce yourself next? Who are you? Who are your people?
Maria: Hi, my name is Maria Legarda and I’m the reentry consultant for APSC. My people are impacted folks, incarceration, immigration, detention, the survivors and, the resilient women who are still inside, those are my people.
And my APC family and the community members who work towards change to improve our communities. People just didn’t decide one day to commit crimes, right? There’s always a reason behind because of events that led to that.
People that make changes in the community to help it make it better for them to have that. Those are my people too. You know what else? I forgot what the question was.
Cheryl: Maria, you answered. Everything perfectly. The question was who are you and who are your people? And you answered it by giving a huge list of who your people are and I think that’s very definitive of who you are as a person. But is there anything else you want to add to that, Maria?
Maria: I think that covered it all.
Cheryl: Beautiful. All right, Peejay, do you want to introduce yourself?
Peejay: So I am Peejay, real name is Borey Ai, but I go by Peejay, and Peejay has been in my life for many years longer than I can remember, but it has shifted and shaped in different forms, but I answer to both now, and I am a child refugee, I’m Cambodian, my family escaped the Khmer Rouge when it happens, and then I immigrate to Thailand to find refuge, and my mom and my dad met there, and so I was conceived and was born in Thailand, came to the United States when I was five, and yeah, and then got in trouble, trying to resettle into the, to the new environment, new culture, and I end up in prison.
I share that to say that my people are folks who are impacted, people who I can relate to, and my experiences, so the refugee folks community And, my elders at CERI, obviously APSC and AACRE are all my community members and anyone who is in a fight, like where I’m learning, as I sit in a lot of different coalition spaces, doing my work, as an advocacy with APSC, and I’ve learned that a lot of community members are sharing the same work, sharing the same values, sharing the same goals, and the people that I’m in community with, so they are my people.
And yeah, just like with Marie, like anyone who’s striving to make changes to better our community members who are impacted is my community.
Cheryl: And last but not least Bun.
Bun: Hey, y’all! Thank you. My name is Chanton Bun, but I just go by Bun. I’m a, I was born during the genocide in Cambodia.
I grew up in the refugee camps. Came to the U. S. when I was about six or seven years old. I’m formerly incarcerated. I’m a father of three boys. Grandfather Yeah, I’m the reentry coordinator here at Asian Prince Support Committee. And I also mentor at risk youth in our community.
My folks are the incarcerated, the formerly incarcerated, the community the youth that is growing in our community now. And just supporting our community through a lot of these traumas that we still
Cheryl: It’s so interesting hearing all of you introduce yourself because I work a lot with the APSC four members just through AACRE.
But and I just learned that bun is a grandfather.
Bun: Yeah, I was gonna say that I’m not that old, but I am a grandfather.
Cheryl: All right now is that we’ve had the chance to hear from each of you about your backgrounds and the communities that you represent and the people that you carry with you. I would like to delve a bit deeper into your personal stories. Each of you have faced unique challenges and experiences that have shaped who you are today. Could you each share with our listeners a bit about some of the hardships that you have all encountered along your journey?
Bun: Oh, I can go.
Yeah. Growing up yeah, I grew up in the refugee camps. So I was faced with like starvation not knowing what safety was, there was, living in the refugee camps. There were so many I saw so many people hurt or walKeng in almost dead.
I think I was numb to it coming to this country. I was faced with bullying a lot and being discriminated against. Being poor wasn’t really. And I didn’t realize we were poor because in the refugee camp, we were poor. So like coming here, we had, we had a roof on our head and food and, family all around the fear of, somebody coming into our house, just taKeng our stuff or, doing what they want because we were in refugee camps when I came to the United States.
I didn’t realize we were poor for a long time. But the bullying and the discrimination was really hard. I remember even the school discriminated against us because I guess they didn’t know where we’re from. One of my memory was me and my cousins and an uncle, we went to school and we all wore slippers.
They called our parents to come pick us up and say, you guys cannot wear slippers. You need shoes. And like our parents didn’t realize that we’re like that’s what we wear for shoes. So that’s one of the first like memories. I knew that we didn’t understand the U. S.
And then, you know, Keds around the neighborhood. We’re just picKeng on us because we didn’t speak English or we didn’t understand the rules we were, and then it was just like a bunch of us Keds. Cause when I came to LA, I lived in an apartment with about 25 of us living there because our cousins and stuff, all we came from Texas, our cousins were here.
And we just wanted to be together because we’ve been separated for a while. And all we knew was me, my uncles, and my cousin, we walked everywhere together. Some of us caught on caught English earlier, so we understood more, some didn’t. So we’re just guiding each other. And then when we were bullied Our parents told us to just take it.
And we knew that in, in the refugee camp we had no power. We took whatever they wanted. I remember getting robbed like three times a week and they’re taKeng our pots and pans. So like keeping quiet was a thing. So we just kept quiet and we didn’t trust authorities at all. Never complained to the principal or the teacher at all, but then we grew into That, that, that, that fear grew into anger and the need was protection.
So the boys in, in, in my family is nah, we’re not taKeng this no more. And we just started defending ourself, fighting and just or my thought, and I’m pretty sure like all my, my, my uncles and my cousin’s thoughts were like, we got to protect. Each other because we can’t walk home crying all the time or we can’t walk home seeing our cousin walk home crying.
So we just said the next time we’re going to fight back and whatever the consequences and the cost. The consequences of coming home, like the teacher calling like, Hey, you’re going to fight. That’s what the consequences because our parents was like against fighting against violence.
But, the consequences of getting detention in class wasn’t, that wasn’t nothing to us. We were scared of coming home, but that, that led into a lifestyle of violence, a lifestyle of feeling that I need protect myself from everything and don’t matter what the situation was. And, it tumbled into joining gangs for protection and in the gang lifestyle.
overtook that fear and we just, gravitated to it because it gave us strength. It gave us a sense of, sense of brotherhood, a sense of safety, a sense of I’m not going to get hurt no more. So that’s how my life spiraled.
Cheryl: Yeah, the interesting thing about radio is that y’all can’t see their faces when Bun was telling the story, literally everyone in this room right now, we’re nodding their heads, and y’all can’t see that because it doesn’t translate into radio.
Ke, I saw you nodding your head a lot. Do you want to share your story?
Ke: My story is very similar to probably Bun’s and Peejay’s being come here as a refugee baby. I don’t remember my whole journey to America. I just remember my journey in America. I just, I remember growing, we moved around a lot in California.
We came into San Francisco, moved around. I remember home for me was the barrier, but predominantly San Francisco. And we moved all over the city. We lived in Chinatown, 100th Point, Petro Hill, Sunset. I remember as a Ked parents separated when I was about six. No, in and out of relationship when I was seven.
So they, they basically wasn’t around for me or each other. They dealt with, dealing with trauma. My mom lost her parents on the way to America. Yeah. My mom’s parents was actually murdered by pirates in the open South China sea. So she dealt with that and she did not deal with that to cope with that.
So she, she did what she did best. And that’s, is finding an end jobs and then dealing with a husband who was abusive. And so we live when we moved to patrol Hill. We got our place got robbed all the time. We ended up having to put bars on our doors and our windows. I remember my mom would say, don’t go outside.
Knows anytime of the day. So I basically was like in a prison in our little apartment. And I had to run this. I remember trying to go to school one time by myself and I got jumped multiple times. I remember they, they do rocks at me. They do run eggs at me. They push me push me down.
They didn’t let their dogs chase after me. So the funny joke about that, I said, I was grateful for them because they actually made me really good at track and field, so I was able to run real fast and jump fences, so that was, I like, I was grateful for that. But I took, the route to school was only five minute walk, but it took me 30 minutes every day to, one each way to come to go to school and come home, just so I could avoid my bullies.
I remember one time they actually caught up to me when I was like eight years old, and I had to, I had really no choice but to fight. And after that day, after they jumped me, after I fought one of those guys, I remember I was standing over the Ked that I fought, and I saw the parent just yelling at me like how you let that chink, that Chinese Ked, that chink beat you up.
And then I saw his friend walKeng up to me like they about to assault me, and I’m like, I’m about, I’m, I’m about to get messed up, but instead they congratulated me. They said good job, welcome to the neighborhood. And so I’m like, from that day on, I normalized violence. Violence is the way to solve your problems, and it’s also the way to be accepted in the neighborhood.
And that’s, and that opened my eyes to, everywhere I looked, there was violence, all different forms of violence. My mom was gone all the time. She was never home. I became a parent. My mom had my second, third oldest my brother. And I end up becoming a parent at eight years old, raising my little brother for a whole year by myself because the neighbor was some old elderly Asian couple just didn’t care about him.
He had diaper rashes and I just took care of him. I built a lot of resentment towards my mom. I’m like, you abandoned us. You abandoned me. You abandoned my brother. What Kend of mother are you? I remember I went out, I stole diapers, stole formulas, stole food, also begged for money at the streets not in the neighborhood, but, different parts of the cities and yeah, it just, I, it felt, I felt like my mom didn’t care.
My dad was never around, he was out of the picture, so I didn’t even think about him. My teenage years. I became really good at sports, played a lot of sports growing up. At the age of 15, we moved to Richmond, California, where I got introduced to the gang lifestyle. I didn’t know nothing about gangs.
It was the first time I actually grew up, I went to a school where there was a lot of Asians. In San Francisco, all the schools I went to were predominantly Blacks and Mexican and Pacific Islanders. And I didn’t know, certain words meant certain things, and then I learned what a blood and a crib is.
I didn’t know what that was, because I remember growing up in San Francisco, we used the word, the term blood all the time as a form of, like family. And so when I went to Richard and they were like, what’s up? I was like, what’s up, blood? And they were like, just cuz. I’m like, cousin?
I was confused. I didn’t like, I didn’t know what that meant. But then I didn’t know that by me hanging out with them that their enemies also became my enemies. And and then I remember if I walked around by myself, their enemy would try to attack me thinKeng I was one of them, which I wasn’t.
And so I became a wannabe at the time and I like associate with them. I started KecKeng with them. But one thing that drew me really close to the gang, the Asian gang, was that our story was very similar to each other. They understood my story, understood this story. We all struggled. I remember growing up, I had to be a translator for my parents, my mom.
She would take me out of school and I resented her for that. Why? I didn’t want to learn English. And so that was, and that just came on as I got older. That resentment came and then I committed my crime when I was 17 years old because I was trying to show my homeboys like you got to show me love.
I’m gonna be there. I want to be the best I could be. I wanted a name for myself. I wanted that respect. And I didn’t think about the consequences at the time. My life was on, it was on the road down destruction. So I didn’t care about myself and I didn’t care about nobody else and I didn’t care about my siblings either at the time.
And so that’s what ended up happening to me before, growing up as a Ked.
Cheryl: What about you, Peejay?
Peejay: Yeah, I think what Keechi said, like my life And Bun and his similar, like I came here when I was five and then like I got bullied right away, right? Like at the earlier stage. And at the time I didn’t even, I didn’t even understand it, even know what it is. And I think like this one story Kend really highlighted my introduction to bullying.
I was in the park, a bunch of Keds laughed at me, right? They’re laughing, right? And so I’m like, at the time I didn’t know they were laughing at me. They were just laughing. And so I laughed. I thought they were laughing, because we’re friends or something, right? They liked me. So I laughed too.
I didn’t know what that was laughing about, but one of the Keds got angry and came up and punched me in the face. I realized, he punched me in the face, he was screaming and yelling at me, I didn’t know what he was saying but I understood right then and there he wasn’t laughing with me, he was laughing at me.
So what happened, I laughed too, so it got him angry, learned right away, What like bully was right and then I wasn’t like well accepted, share the same story of like most Southeast Asian community, we get spit on we get beat up, in school and things like that.
But I think the message I got, most deeply about I’m not wanted, is, we talked about that the Cleveland elementary school shooting, that was where I was with the first school shooting in the United States where Southeast Asian community was targeted by, And I lost my cousin during a school shooting.
But that was like a big statement, some dude showed up in the, in the playground, climbing up the roof with an AK 47 and shooting at us, right? They were like telling me, that’s a big statement you’re not wanted, for me it was like, I grew up in a very bad environment as it is, where there’s a lot of gangs, there’s a lot of violence, a lot of shooting, a lot of, stuff happening in the neighborhood and then, getting constantly bullied all the time and, spit on and tell you that you’re not wanted to go back to your country.
And then when that happened, I just shut down, I didn’t believe that my environment is safe anymore. And I, obviously when you’re in a refugee camp, like when I go you don’t feel safe, you know what safety is, right? So I grew up never feeling safe, right?
And I was moving around. And so that led me to gangs, right? Like he, I joined a gang. I felt the love in the gang. The bully stopped, and they started giving me hugs, showing me love and as someone who craves acceptance, since the day you step into a new country, just wanting to belong somewhere that felt really good, and I was a Ked. I was like, man, I felt so good. Like I felt like I belong somewhere. Like people care about me. This is my family. And for me, like that, that bought me into this idea, like this is what most of my life is about. I’m going to give everything for these, for the homies.
And, the Ke, I agreed to commit a crime, At 14 and end up in the prison system as one of the youngest juvenile lifer, and I was pretty much raised in the system. I think I spent more time in prison than I’ve been home, been out on the street. So everything I learned, in prison, right?
And then I came home as an adult after 20 something years. And not like trying to just, as an adult in a new society with not a lot of experience. So fortunately, people like he, people like Bun, Maria, who does this work, that’s why APC4 Reentry Program is so important, right?
Because people like me didn’t know how to use a cell phone, didn’t know how to turn on a computer, didn’t do a lot of stuff, right? I’ve learned a lot of stuff in prison. So I have a lot of advantage as I was investing in myself and doing my programming to earn my parole, but even still this stuff, I didn’t know, and I imagine people it was worse than both of I was to have some knowledge and have a lot of access that I did, but I’ll show you, I’ll show you to say it’s hard, it’s hard in our work, help transition. I remember he took me shopping, show me how to use Bart, how to use public transportation. The trajectory of my life would have much been different. If I grew up in a different environment, like that’s something I was clear about. And so now like we try to create those environment for our community because we’ll know better.
We learn from our past experience and now like giving back to our community. Is, for me, it’s like, for me, like this work is my life, like it’s my life because I’ve lived through it, like someone saved my life, I didn’t want to make it home without people showing up, doing this work.
So I feel like for me giving back and continuing this work is part of the commitment. Creating change and giving back, but I feel like I was meant to do this, like I, I came home with a purpose, I went to prison with absolutely no clue, just trying to survive. And I came home with a purpose. I feel like I have some Kend of meaning in my life. So that’s Kend the short summary of my life. I like my connection to APS C is my work and my work is my life.
Cheryl: (Peejay I think your genuine passion for what you do really shows, and I’m sure our listeners can feel it too.) Maria, please. We would love to hear your story.
.
Maria: For me. Unlike Peejay, Ke, and Bun, I wasn’t a refugee, during the war. I immigrated to the U. S. During the time when the economic the economy in the Philippines is not doing great.
I was born during the time of the Marcus dictatorship. That was during Ferdinand Marcus regime in the Philippines where we were under his dictatorship for 30 years. During that time, growing up. I had siblings and my younger sister became ill, with my parents being gone all the time taKeng care of my sister.
It was a difficult childhood, from what we were used to, and just the changes. In our lives. And at that time, my parents did the best that they could to support us, all three of us, but because they don’t know actually what was going on with my sister, right? It was difficult for a parent to see their child.
Child suffering, and she was young. She was only four. So at that time, I was left to take care of my brother. And it was the two of us, fending for ourselves. It took a toll on my parents, and the time spent with me and my brother and my sister were very limited. And I felt abandoned.
This was our life before, my sister got sick. We were happy. We’re going on vacations summer. By the beach, even if it’s just, right there, you go to the beach with your chocolates and you just hop on the, the side of it’s the islands, right? So we had fun.
We just stopped doing all those things. And the only thing we knew was my sister was sick. That was it. My parents didn’t know how to explain something that they don’t know either what was going on. So I guess that my expectation is such a young age is, my parents were in my world.
So expecting them to tell us like what was going on and the feeling of that abandonment and that unworthiness being unloved and cared for really was there, it’s just there, but I never manifested it because I didn’t know how to, but I knew what I was feeling inside. And so when parents fought my sister’s condition got worse and eventually at the age of 10, she passed away, so my parents would, my parents, other than the heartache, the heartbreak of losing a child was left with huge financial debt.
In, in our culture, the eldest takes care of the family, right? So at that time I was going to school my parents provided for us that we can still go to school. It was hard. We managed it. We went through a lot, but in the end my parents did the best that they can for me and my brother.
So I, I had the opportunity, to come to the U S. And I came here by myself without any contingency, any plan, but the idea that maybe when I get there, then I’ll figure it out because I see a lot of people leaving the Philippines, coming over here, finding work. So I’ll also do that.
And that was the trend during that time. In the 90s, a lot of people were immigrating to the U. S. to find like a better life, right? And so when I came during that time I mentioned that longing, the attention, that abandonment. And so I was here alone and I met someone. I met someone and everything that I needed, that person listened to me.
He cared. He loves me. He actually, somebody does actually care how I feel. And so I never thought that he would be the person to hurt me. And so we were talKeng like really getting to know each other. And then six months, we decided to meet. And on the day we met, I became a victim of sexual assault.
And Again, the, it was worse, there were, I don’t even have words for how, I felt after the betrayal because my whole world just shattered, and being alone here, it wasn’t, it’s not like the Me Too movement that we have now. Back then, we don’t speak of it. And one thing I did at that time that I tell the women now, the young women, it is not your fault because I met him.
Do I really know him? No. Growing up in a culture where you just don’t go out with somebody you don’t know, right? That was the time then people were meeting chat rooms, online dating. So I carried that guilt with me that it was my fault. For a long time, it took me a long time to really process that it wasn’t my fault.
It was done to me. I didn’t ask for it. But I carried that. So drugs were the only thing that I was able to cope with because it made me numb. It made me forget. It gave me that false sense of power that I can take control back of my life. Not knowing that once I use drugs, I, it, I become numb to it all.
And that eventually led me to incarceration. And so now after years of self introspection and just understanding what has, what the challenges and, the difficulties and all the heartbreaks that I had went through in life, going to self help groups and hearing the other survivors overcome it And stepping out of that that it was my fault, having to hear that the first time is what broke me free from that. Now, in my line of work, I can easily recognize it, because I was there. I know how it felt. And I always I’ve been, blessed to be able to grant that space, that safety space for our folks, men and women, when they share their struggles, because I’ve been there. I know what it’s like. So I do, I’m passionate about my work because I’ve seen how I’ve turned things around.
I saw myself, how I picked myself back up. I saw myself when I was really down that at the end of the day when people around you care enough to get to know you more than your past, you’re going to get through it, and my, work in APSC And Ke would be the I came out of detention and Ke was one of the first one of the first people that I met other than Nia, Nia was a volunteer at that time with APSC and being undocumented it was hard for me to get anything.
So Ke was there from the beginning. This is what you need to do. Don’t worry. I’m going to walk you through it. And without Ke. guiding me through those steps it would have been much harder. It was already hard, but this was going to be extremely harder if he didn’t give me the guidance. He didn’t know what was going to happen, but he knew something to guide me.
So that’s why that’s how I Eventually got to work with APSE because the first time they had their internship program, I think five minutes into posting it, I already submitted my application because I knew that the journey that I was taKeng on at that time as an undocumented immigrant, I know that there’s going to be ways that I’m gonna, I have to find another way.
Because I’m not the only one, and I know a lot of women coming home, men and women that are coming home are going to need their IDs, are going to need their social security, are going to need all their documentation, and who’s best to explore them, right? Than me. Why? Because right now, this is where God has me, right?
He has me on this path to help people. So let’s get it done. And so that’s why I stay with my APSC because I believe in what they do for a community because they started with me.
Cheryl: Maria!. That is such a beautiful point. And I think that last sentence that you shared is really why I admire the work of APC. So, so incredibly much, like not only is it work. For. Impacted folk. But it’s also led for and by impacted folk who really understand the experiences of what it’s like. And when your work is led by those who have truly experienced the impact firsthand. You approach people with a level of empathy that makes a real difference.
And I’m listening to the things that you’ve all shared. You know, it’s clear that what often matters most are the things that people like me who have never been behind bars often take for granted, you know, it’s things like. You know your stories of needing Ke to. Teach you how to navigate BART? How do you secure your ID? What’s a. Social security number. And the emotional support that comes with helping someone reintegrate into society. I truly don’t know where a community would be without the incredible work that you all do with APC for.
Now I’m eager to learn more about the impactful work that you’re doing within our community. What has been some of the most rewarding aspects of your work in. Reentry support and mentorship. Time is a factor. So maybe we could hear from maybe two of you.
Bun: I think the most rewarding about re entry for me is, Watching the person I’m helping know that they have support, in my life there was nothing out there to support us other than gangs. But just. Watching them know that they have support, empowering them and their family to understand the system understand a person when they’re coming home with family relations, and also relationships with their Keds because a lot of us have been incarcerated for so long.
Just that, like he always say the first 90 days are important to show them the support that they really need because like myself, I was lost. I was like a loss, the last person coming home. I didn’t even know how to cross the street. It took somebody to come take me to cross the street and walk me down the street because I wouldn’t do what I was like, I can’t do it.
It’s terrifying. But yeah just. A lot of folks often think like reentry is like a, no, we have to go get you a job, get you this. And those are important too. But the important thing is the little things like, teaching, teaching somebody how to answer their phone, teach them how to, setting up their calendar, teaching them across the street, walKeng, maKeng decisions when we’re ordering stuff, taKeng them shopping, letting them shop for themselves.
So these are the little things that. A lot of us and especially myself, I could speak for having anxiety, it was a really big anxiety of learning how to navigate society when I came home. I think a lot of our folks in reentry and. And it’s crazy. Often, like when we take them on everybody in RedsKens is thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I’m like, what are you thanKeng me for? This is what you deserve, and then you’ll hear it. They’ll thank us all day. And we want to relate to them. This is what you deserve. This is what all of us deserve when we’re coming home. This is what all of us deserve when we’re growing up in our communities is this support from people that looks like you.
People come from the same background, people that understand you. That’s what really give me a lot of joy when I do my work is to seeing folks know that they do have support from folks that have been through it and folks that look like them, folks that’s been through things like them.
So that’s my biggest joy when I do this work,
Ke: I like to jump in real quick I remember when I came home before all the rest of my colleagues here. I had no one like no one knew how to navigate the system. No, I like I came home with a loss of status. So I didn’t know that I wasn’t American that, I got released from immigration.
And it just Kecked me out. And then it’s I want to go get an ID. And it’s we need two form of IDs. And I’m like, what do you need? They need, they said, we need a birth certificate or a passport. And I said, I have neither, no, neither one. And they said, what about a green card? I said my green card is no good no more.
According to what they told me. So I’m like, I have no former I. D. I couldn’t get I. D. And it took me a while to get I. D. And just learning how to navigate barred and everything. It was I have a lot of gray hairs behind it. I have my head on, so you can’t see, but it was really difficult to navigate.
And then it’s I had no one that looked like me that went through that process, right? And there was no program for A. P. I. folks that’s coming out to have that support. And I’m so grateful for Asian Prison Support Committee for giving me that, for opening that door for me to learn this process, but also to receive the help.
And I think for me, the highlight like Bun named a lot of the great stuff. I think for me, the it’s my way of maKeng amends for the harm that I caused. That’s why I do this work. I can, I could have left this job for a really good trade job, get great money, maKeng six figures a year, but I’m like, I need to get back, because that, this is my way of healing myself, not just the other person, it’s just, it’s Kend selfish to say that.
But I if I can’t heal myself, how can I help heal the next person? And that’s why I do this work. And I remember one of the guys I picked up from immigration, he’s he had a choice of his family and us, formerly incarcerated folks, to pick him up. And he’s I’m grateful for you guys to pick me up.
And I’m like, why? He said, because you guys understand me. You guys understand if my family came, it would have been a such a disconnect with them because they wouldn’t understand it was like you have to do this, you have to do that. And then this is what you should do is but for us like we know what to do, and then we understand like choices, being incarcerated for decades and coming out like choices is really difficult for us, people tell what do you want, and we like, I don’t know.
We was limited to what we had inside. And so that’s why I keep doing this work. Like with the rest of them, it’s like giving back, but also at the same time healing. We’re on this healing journey together.
Cheryl: I know I only said two people, but I really watched the way Maria’s eyes fricKen sparkled when I asked this question.
Maria, I want to know what has been the most rewarding part of worKeng at APSC?
Maria: Am I that I’m easily read? No, because the one thing and he and by with no we had a client, she had a drug past these two, she was, she had a, oh my god, I said that backwards past drug use. And she worked on actually worKeng on getting her substance abuse, counseling.
So we help her get through it online classes register for her use gift cards to get that online classes paid like every avenue that we could think of we helped her get that in the same time. She was trying to get custody of all her children. And so walKeng her through her online classes and being there by her side, like just cheering her on, you can do this.
And so with her heart and mind into it, she was able to do it. She graduated. She finished it. And at the same time it was just getting hit with left and right with different problems, around getting custody of her child children. But because she has the support of a PSE. She said, I would have never been able to get through all this if not for your weekly calls that you check up on us.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s me, whether it’s Ke, Bun, because it’s a, it’s an effort, a team effort, right? Me and Bun would go there when she needed us, as a support. And so when she finally finished her school she was able to go to an internship. And now she works for another nonprofit organization, and she actually refers clients to us now because she became a substance use counselor.
And then on top of that, gained custody of her three Keds. How much more work an AP has to do, right? With family reunification, that’s what it’s all about. It doesn’t matter what your past was, it matters like how you’re going to move forward. Yeah, your past, they’re always going to bring it up, right?
Because you have a record. But what they’re not going to be able to take away from you is what you go from this point on, from that abusive relationship, and you were able to take it out, and you’re able to do something with your life and get your Keds back, and now you have a home for them. That’s what the work is about.
It’s not just about helping people, when they first come home, but it’s that care that you nurture them in their journey. That’s why our job is not eight to five, unfortunately, and it doesn’t, our job doesn’t stop after six months. They become family to us and that’s really what APSC is about, and that’s one of the joys seeing her graduate, become a counselor and have her Keds back.
So that’s our APSC, one of our stories, our re entry stories that really we talk about it all the time.
Cheryl: I could speak the praises of the incredible work that APSC 4. Does forever. But until then we have to take a quick music break. To our listeners. If you take anything away after hearing these stories, it’s that we need to collectively demand that governor Newsome, pardons APSC 4 for. Formerly incarcerated leaders like the APSC four are at the heart of our movement. They’re compassion and resiliance inspire us all to create change in our communities. And yet despite their work and transformation. Maria Key bun and PJ remain in this immigration limbo and are at risk of being detained by ice and deported. Uh, deporting APS. Core staff would devastate our community.
So please join me in urging governor Newsome to take action now to pardon APC for. To protect them from deportation by going to this link. bit.ly/APSC4 for all in capital letters. It’ll also be linked in our show notes.
Once again, the link is bit.ly/APSC4 this is an all capital letters. This is a direct link to the APC for action toolkit, which will give you different action items you can do to join us in. The fight to part in APC for. There’s a call script for governor Gavin Newsome. Demanding the protection of APC for there are sample tweets you can send out. There is a petition. You can sign there also graphics you can share on social media. So please, please check out this link. You could even do this during our music break. Once again, the link is bit.ly/APSC4 N all capital letters. When we come back, we’re going to be tackling broader issues and systemic change.
So don’t go anywhere.
Cheryl: And we’re back. You were listening to apex express on 94.1, FM KPFA and [email protected]. You were just listening to change the world by baby Chris. We have currently with members of APS C. Maria Key PJ and bun. And the first half of the show, we delved into their personal stories, struggles and advocacy efforts. But in order to give you all a comprehensive understanding of their stories. We need to talk about the broader systemic dynamics that are at play. So let’s dive back in.
Bun: For me
immigration need to look at what we’ve been through and also what California said, we got a second chance. We earned our second chance. We have proven that we are change, and we, APSE4, have proven that coming back to the community, we are an asset to our community. I think they need to really look into that.
Folks that have been have proved themselves through the board, through finishing their term, that we all deserve a second chance. If a citizen deserves a second chance, why not us? And what is the difference, other than we were born somewhere else? Our lives, our family, our communities here.
So yeah, they need to really look into what a second chance
Ke: mean.
I don’t think there’s anyone in the world that has not made a bad choice in their life or a mistake. Like to be defined by the worst day of your life for the rest of your life. Like, how is that just, especially in a country that is You know, the pillar of human rights, we say who built America, immigrants built America.
How do we make America great again? We save our immigrant and refugee community. That’s how we make America great again. It’s not by, I look at it when you put people through the immigration system, it’s like slavery all over again. Prisons, no different. It’s like slavery all over again. If we talk about humanity, we talk about a just system.
We talk about second chances. We talk about people. These are people that are incarcerated, not numbers, not products. not just a person that made a terrible choice, these are people, mother, father, grandfather, aunties until we start seeing people as people, we will continue to dehumanize them.
And yeah, yes, we made some bad choices in our life. But at the same time, like Bunce said, we are redeemable. Just give us that second chance to show you. And that’s what APSC’s Board has been doing. We’ve been showing everyone that we, yeah, we own it. We, yeah, we take accountability for what we’ve done.
At the same time we’re showing you that we’re not that same person anymore. And put it out there for everyone is yes, look at, don’t always look at the harm that people cause, but look at the reason why they made that choice. And if you understand where they came from, it’ll tell you why they did what they did, but also you give them that chance, they can show you that they can make a difference.
Yeah, I know like
Peejay: the way I see life now, and this is Kend of like mind boggling to me because a lot of people like are conservative or very smart. We’re educated. And then, to me, it’s if you truly value peace, right? You truly value people’s lives. Community, right? You have to treat everyone equally, the same, right? We start treating people differently, you create division, that’s how you divide us. California isn’t supposed to be a state that is full of division, it’s supposed to be, the value is that we’re all together, right? We’re from all walks of life, and a melting pot, right?
Of cultural and diversity, and that’s what makes it so amazing and beautiful, and you can find anything here in California from any part of the world. Like we made California an amazing place, right? So then, like, when you see about the anti Asian hate, like, all the movement about solidarity, then you turn around and say, okay we’re going to treat these people differently and just deport them because they committed a crime, but then we’re going to say, like, all these other people, they redeemed themselves, too, but we’re going to give them another chance, to me, that would make no sense, right? You’re creating division, we’re people, we should treat everybody the same. And we all have, it’s not like we didn’t earn it, we’re not talKeng about giving people a chance to give a chance we’re giving people a chance to earn a chance.
And then we have proven ourselves. And I think that’s a testament, like I’m going to keep living my life the way I live my life. I’m going to keep pushing and helping people because that’s what I’m meant to do. And I don’t think that’s going to change me no matter what people think of me, but I think if people really put money where their mouth is, then they should really more solidarity, like watching people differently when we’re trying to bring people together. I don’t know. That’s, maybe that’s too simple, but to me, it’s no brainer, if you want to pull us all dirty, then do it.
Stop talKeng about it,
Cheryl: maria, did you have anything you wanted to add?
Maria: I second everything that Bun, Ke, and Peejay mentioned, second chance is, to me, it’s, we weren’t born here, right? But, our community is we’re helping our community become safe. We’re helping our community thrive, and I’ll look at that.
Cheryl: I
Maria: got distracted, but they would someone that never had a conviction, what are you doing to help your community thrive? So the only difference between me, but he and Peejay is that we had a conviction. But we’re here to serve our community, and yet at any given day, he can just pick us up and deport us.
And then what happens, who’s going to continue to work, because like I said, our jobs not eight to five, and it doesn’t last a six month program. It’s a lifetime. No. So who’s willing to pick up that responsibility, because we are. So I hope that, in the near future, like the policies and the immigration see past the conviction.
And see us that we matter, took us a long time to regain that work to believe in our own worth, because we’re now we know what our value is, and we fight for our freedom to stay here to not get sent back to a country we’ve never been in, because now we know what our value is. We know our community values us, our family holds us dear.
And without our work in the community, who’s going to save the children, the youth, who’s going to help the elders, who’s going to bridge that gap, because there are more and more people that’s going to be in and out of the system. And who’s going to help them. And that’s, that’s my hope that, one day they see us as equals, and not just.
immigrants who are not born here.
Cheryl: I hope that by this, after hearing all of these incredible stories of APSC4, you all know how important and integral that Boone, Peejay, Maria, Ke are to our community. I know just from my own experience that They are core members of my own community, and I don’t know where our community would be without them.
Learn more about PartinAPSC4 in the show notes. I want to thank all of you so much for coming on our show tonight. Thank you all so much for being here, for sharing your stories, and for continuing this really incredible work that y’all are doing. Yeah, we’ll see you on the next show. Thanks, everyone!
Thank you, have a good night!
Ke: Alright, bye!
And that’s the end of our show. Learn more about the incredible work being done by Apsu for, by checking out the show notes. Don’t forget that the APC for action toolkit is also available at the link bit dot Lee slash APC. that’s the number for all capital letters. And it’s also available in our show notes as well.
And also don’t forget to check out the new anthology published by Asian prisoner support committee. APC called arrival freedom, writings of Asian and Pacific Islanders. This anthology was several years in the making.
And offer us an intimate insight into the lived experiences of AAPI communities, entangled within the criminal legal system and immigration. From tales of resilience, amiss adversity to profound reflections on identity and belonging, arrival explores themes of war, memory, prison, transformation, healing, and the pursuit of home.
This is available for purchase at Eastwind books of Berkeley. www.asia book, center.com.
Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong
Tonight’s show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!