A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.
This week we introduce our sister podcast Continental Shifts. Check out episode 1 and 2 created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha-Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture, and the ancestors. You’ll hear the first two episodes of their podcast and hopefully walk away with a bit more information about them, and about wayfinding as an important mental, physical, and spiritual practice.
ConShifts Podcast – Episode 1 – Introduction TRANSCRIPTS
Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the Apex Express.
Swati Rayasam: [00:00:35] Good evening, everyone. You’re listening to APEX Express Thursday nights at 7:00 PM. My name is Swati Rayasam, and I’m the special editor for this episode. Tonight, we’re highlighting a podcast called Continental Shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha-Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture, and the ancestors. You’ll hear the first two episodes of their podcast and hopefully walk away with a bit more information about them, and about wayfinding as an important mental, physical, and spiritual practice.
Estella Owoimaha-Church & intro music: [00:01:07] The more I continue to do a deep dive in my identity, who I am, who I aim to be, the stronger of an educator I am, but also, the more equipped I am to provide brave, co-op spaces for students where they also get to explore and craft their identity. O a’u o Estella, o [?].
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:01:37] And this is Gabriel. What’s good, family? Kumusta? So fam, we’re finally here. Continental Shifts Podcast. I’m excited to have this conversation with you to kick off our first episode. And just a quick run of introductions. Estella, if you wanted to introduce yourself to the people, please let the people know who you are.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:01] For sure for sure. Hey, y’all. I am Estella Owoimaha-Church and I’m a teacher in Los Angeles. I teach high school theater and I’m heavily involved as a labor union leader-organizer in our community. And, I also run a small non profit here in LA called Education Ensemble.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:02:28] All right, that’s what’s up, Estella. I’m Gabriel Tanglao, former educator, high school teacher up in Bergenfield, New Jersey. One of the second largest Filipino populations in New Jersey, fun fact. And now I’m working full time with the New Jersey Education Association in the Professional Development Division. So doing some labor organizing work full time, fully focused, supporting educators across New Jersey, specifically with racial justice, racial equity, racial literacy work. I’m excited to be here for this conversation, Estella. So, we met I think over a year now. So I’m trying to recall what the origin story is of how we connected. Estella, do you remember the origin story of how we connected?
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:03:14] I am pretty sure we were in Denver at NEA leadership summit and yeah, mutual teacher friend connected us. And the conversation there was everything [laughs].
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:03:28] I feel like you and I have been connected for a while now, even though it’s been short in terms of years. But the NEA Leadership Conference in Denver, for people who aren’t familiar, NEA, the National Education Association, represents millions of educators across the country. And this was one of their largest conferences, the National Leadership Summit. So, when you and I had a chance to connect there, I think it was Stephanie Téllez who is one of the dope educator, labor activists that I connected through the NEA Minority Women in Leadership Training Conference. But, we had a chance to connect on some of our shared roots as an Asian and Pacific Island family. I remember the conversations at dinner, at lunch, when we were breaking bread. We really had a chance to connect on the strength of that. So, that actually is really the genesis that planted the seeds of the relationship that grew for us to be at this part.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:04:29] Right. I think, I feel like not soon, very shortly after we met, we mentioned that yo, we got to have some sort of project or something where those conversations we had get to live, but also get to grow, get to evolve, and we can sort of continue to dig into who we are as educators, as labor unionists, as PI folk and, sort of continue walking that identity journey that so many of us, are on or have gone on, together as siblings.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:05:07] Like, at one of the dinners we were talking about sharing some of our story, I was reflecting on being Filipino and just kind of unpacking what that meant in terms of Asian identity in the context of, you know, the Philippine islands being a Spanish colony for over 300 years and then that experience of being a first generation Filipino American out here in the States, in New Jersey, which doesn’t have a large Filipino population, it’s concentrated in a few areas. And then listening to your story of your background, do you mind if I just ask and give our audience a sense of what is your background and how are you coming to the space?
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:05:48] Word. So I am Samoan Nigerian, born and raised in South Central LA. My father is from Calabar, Nigeria. My mother is originally from Samoa—Savai, Samoa—and I am first generation born in the States. And while there was a large population of Samoan or Tongan folk in my area growing up, I grew up predominantly in black spaces, black American spaces. So even as a Nigerian American, never really having, I guess, authentically African experiences is what I can wrap that up in. And so I didn’t begin really searching for my Samoan roots until, I was much older, undergrad had started, but really, I really really dug deep, took a deep dive, my late twenties and now my early thirties. I’ve been taking classes and trying to learn the language and reading every book I can get my hands on. Not a lot has been written on Samoa, but everything I can learn about Oceania and Pacifica trying to be as connected as I can possibly be to my indigenous roots, both in Samoa and in Nigeria.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:07:11] Word, word. And I remember part of that story as you shared it when we first met was inspiring some exploration for me to just dig deeper into my roots and start that journey. So for us to have stayed connected, for you and I to be comrades and fam and just begin to build that relationship, it inspired me to continue exploring. And that’s, again, why we’re here, Continental Shifts Podcast. Part of our journey here is to be sharing it with the people and lift up some voices of some dope API educators. And that last part is a transition because we mentioned and proudly named that we are educators, right? And, for folks that are listening, I would love for Estella to share if you could share what was the reason or what was the drive that brought you to education in the first place?
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:08:08] So much of my identity is also wrapped up in what I do. Alright like, those who I am and what I do are really closely linked and really feed off of the other. And I am just recently coming to the realization that the better I know myself, like the more I continue to do a deep dive in my identity, who I am, who I aim to be, the stronger of an educator I am, but also more equipped. The more equipped I am to provide brave co-op spaces with students where they also get to explore and craft their identities. And so I feel like it is definitely part of my service, like part of what I am called to do this work internally so that I can help young people also do that same lift. And it’s a heavy lift that takes a really long time. Like, I mean, it wasn’t until thirty-one, thirty, twenty-nine, thirty, I learned a sentence in Samoan you know [laughs] so, doing my best to remain vulnerable with students and folks listening to our show, about where I am in that process. I think not only is authentic of me to do, but keeps me honest and focused on trying to do better. And so I came to education to do my best to serve. That’s really what that’s about. I didn’t always have the best experience in my K-12 education. And there were a handful of teachers who, I mean, we, we all have those stories, right? Those above and beyond the teachers you’re still close with, the teachers you’ll never forget their names. And so it just felt like no way in hell I can repay them back, other than to try to pick up where they left off and continue to build onto their legacies. So like through me, even after the day they retire, so long as I’m making them proud, then their legacy lives on.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:10:23] Love that. It’s like you’re paying it forward in spending your life committed to the next generation. And, also the way that you name that you came to explore your cultural roots a little more in depth later on in life, that resonated with me because I was thinking about my own journey of how I came into teaching in the first place. And, part of the role of, first generation, often the oldest in the family that I am, there’s an expectation and a pressure to assimilate to the dominant culture. In part because with my parents being immigrants from the Philippines and coming to the United States, I was almost like a bridge in terms of how do we connect to this new society, this new community in which we live. And that’s something that really carried on through most of my childhood. I grew up in a suburban neighborhood, middle class, good public schools in northern New Jersey. And it was a largely white population, a mixed Irish, Italian, German, but largely white population. And I was one of the few Filipino kids growing up. Fortunately I had camaraderie with a lot of folks, but part of that was just trying to make my cultural dopeness and shine and roots, right? Like I tried to shrink myself in that way because the role that I saw was to fit in. And that was through my formative years from K-12 for the most part, I think it was later on in high school that I started to you know, just start to see like, oh, okay I got a little more flavor because I’m Filipino and what is that about? Right. But just only scratching the surface of it. And the way that you named the educators that influenced you, I have to shout out the professor that changed the entire trajectory of my entire future. And, it wasn’t until college at Pace University in lower Manhattan. I actually went to Pace University, Estella, I became a business major. I actually had aspirations in that American dream mythology of like, I’ll do good in school, I’ll become a businessman, CEO, make money, and live the American dream. Whatever that looked like in my adolescent mind, right?
But it wasn’t until my sophomore year of college where I had a course that was the literature of African peoples and Professor Oseye was my professor and she was this sister that would come into the room, right? And in Manhattan, you can imagine how small the classrooms are. The buildings are all boxed in because, the value of property out there is you know, a premium. So tiny classroom, but Professor Oseye would come into the room dressed in this beautiful kente cloth and just stand in front of the classroom and just start to lecture us in a way that was so compelling and inspiring. I don’t want to take up too much space but I had to shout out Professor Oseye because she introduced me to a Narrative [of] the Life of Frederick Douglass, [The] Autobiography of Malcolm X, W.E.B. Du Bois, all of the black intellectuals, revolutionaries that actually planted the seed in my mind on liberation, and it was actually the black liberation struggle through college that allowed me to become aware and conscious of my own journey and the society in which we live, which put me on a path to become a political science major, became very active in student organizations, specifically the Black Student Union. And again, it was the black liberation struggle and the Black Student Union that embraced me and all of the energy and cultural awareness that I brought from a different lens, and that put me on track to fall in love with education in a way that carried me into teaching. And to close the loop on the story, I ended up teaching at Bergenfield High School, which was right next to the town that I grew up in but Bergenfield was a larger Filipino population. So, full circle, coming back to the community, but specifically rooted in my own cultural community. That’s kind of the story that took me into teaching and a lot of what you shared in your story
.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:15:03] The exact same thing happened to me too. Undergrad, I went to Cal State Northridge and was, I mentioned I’m a theater teacher, absolute theater nerd, was definitely a theater major, but picked up Africana Studies, Pan African studies as a second major.
And it was my professors in that department, specifically my mentor, Dr. Karin Stanford, who, yeah, put me on black liberation [laughs]. And it opened up a whole, and it wasn’t even just that It was also digging deep into hip hop studies, hip hop ed, which just busted open a whole new world of insight. And again, being super involved with those organizations on campus. We did have a Poly[nesian] group, but, and I think this is something or leads us into why this show now, very often growing up if ever I got the privilege or the chance to be in an API specific space, it was not always a space where I felt safe, right? It was not always a space I felt fully welcome. And I couldn’t quite put my finger on it until being an Africana Studies major, like then I could process and really think that through and recognize this is your anti-blackness showing and it’s not a reflection of me or who I am.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:16:35] I think when we first connected was talking about how we in the API community need to do the work of attacking anti-blackness within that space, right? How do we unpack that? What is it that puts us into the position around the model minority myth of being a racial wedge between white supremacy, anti-blackness, right? Like, how is it that we need to engage our Asian and Pacific Island brothers and sisters within our communities? To be able to attack that anti-black sentiment that is resonant in American culture, right? That’s part of it, right? It’s an ingratiating yourself to the dominant power structure, right? That said, when I connected with you and when I connected with some of the dope people across the country, specifically within the labor movement, specifically organizing within the community spaces, it’s very clear that’s a stereotype that’s imposed on us. And part of our conversation today and for the continental shifts is to challenge that narrative and lean into the ways utilizing our educator voice, utilizing our organizing experience, talking about black liberation struggle and how it intellectually and spiritually infused in us our own awareness around our own liberation as API people and how do we carry that forward? How do we pay that forward in the work that we do?
I think that takes us to another part of our conversation, which is where we are right now. And in our professional space right now, in this moment. And in this moment, we have to name that we are in an environment where it’s just unprecedented due to the global pandemic, white nationalism has taken over the federal government for the past, well, I mean, the history teacher in me is, kind of framing this a little differently for the people. One could argue that white nationalism has actually been the norm throughout, the very beginnings of colonization on through the present moment. So, maybe there’s a continuity of white nationalism. But, for folks, there’s a heightened awareness of how openly racist, that the narratives and rhetoric has been, how violent it has been. But, I digress. My point is we are in a moment, right? We’re in a moment. So, I have to ask Estella, why this show and why right now? And the show is named again for the people, Continental Shifts Podcast.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:19:12] Absolutely. I think everyone has a heightened sense of awareness at this particular moment and as educators and organizers that we are, it is crucial that in our service to our loved ones, to our people, to our comrades, that we use this time, this space, this passion project to elevate all of that and to move forward conversations that we’ve had in API spaces, for example, our caucuses within our unions, and really move forward as opposed to continuing to have conversations around things like, what do we call ourselves? Without framing that differently, right? I feel like we get stuck in this loop. API, AAPI, Asian American, split up the p—and this is just one example of why now, why this show. But did we pause and recognize or acknowledge that all of those names, none of those names we gave ourselves. Right. So as we do this work to uplift young people, to educate, to uplift ourselves and each other, we really have to figure out how we move away from language and tools and names that our oppressors gave us to begin with. Right. And really, really, really, really make massive continental shifts. And that’s what our show is about. So digging into, as you guys continue to rock with us, follow us, we’ll have special guests on each episode to dig into really heavy topics. Really moving forward our work, this work, in a space that is accessible to folks, a space that is laid back, free flowing, and a space that is all ours, that we get to name and it is nothing but love and respect between and with all of the folks who will grace us with their time and their presence on every episode here on out.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:21:31] The people that we have in our networks, in our relationships, in our community, some of the dopest educators, some of the dopest activists, some of the dopest organizers out there. And if the podcast, the Continental Shifts Podcast in particular, is a way for us to lift up voices of other APIs, as you said. Lift up our own voices, start to critically analyze the society that’s around us so that we can become more sophisticated in our approach to organizing to shift not just the state, not just in the community, the entire world. We’re talking about continents. We’re talking about changing the world here, thinking about the ancestors that survived and were resilient and went through all of the journey to get us to the places that we are. Like our existence, our lives are due to the ancestors’ survival and the gifts that they passed down to us, the wealth, the knowledge, the wisdom, the tradition, the culture, the language, as Estella mentioned earlier. And that’s something that I struggle with now is that I’m stuck in the box of English only in my own language development. So the fact that you are looking into developing an awareness and a consciousness and a skill set to be able to get in touch with your indigenous language roots is just beautiful. And, I’m just saying, continental shifts happens on so many levels. And one of the unique things, if this is a seed that we pass down, the ways that our ancestors passed down to us, the seeds of wisdom, we’re hoping that this passes on some seeds of wisdom to the generations that are currently organizing right now and for generations to come, because this is a turning point. It has to be. It has to be. We can’t continue the world as we are seeing it today. So, just hope y’all are ready for that.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:23:22] So, and I’ll say this too, there’s a saying in Samoan, and I don’t have it in Samoan right now, but it translates to: even every good fisherman sometimes makes a mistake. As you were talking, one thing came to mind and it’s a quote from Audre Lorde she says, “There is no such thing as a single-issue [struggle] because we do not live single-issue lives,” and so I thought about wayfinding. And I think one of our conversations we had when we first met was about this generational divide that adds a different layer of complication and issues around positionality, oppression, anti-blackness, when we start to think about API folk in our communities, and there really is a generational like layer to it all, right? You and I being from the same generation growing up very similar, you know, I’m going to be a business major because I’m a child of immigrants and the American way and I need to do better and make sure everything my parents sacrificed was not for nothing. That’s definitely a first gen thing, like that’s a thing, and so you and I have a space to work our way backwards forwards and live in the present, right? So we have an opportunity to continue our identity journeys together, keep reaching as far back as we can and dig. We also get to do that while living in the moment and dealing with these challenges with what education looks like in a global pandemic. But we also get to dismantle as much of it as possible so that there is a new future, right? There’s a new, we’re going to do this differently. There is no back to normal because don’t nobody want to go back to normal, right? Like the shit wasn’t working then [laughs], it’s not going to work after a global pandemic. So you got in front of you guys today, two dope bi-coastal educators, wayfinding their way from the past to the present and to the future.
So we got a whole lot to talk about and unpack just in season one. Today was really about Gabriel and I introducing ourselves, introducing the show and what Continental Shifts and what it’s about. As we move forward, we’re going to continue to dig into wayfinding, we’ll be digging into anti-blackness within API spaces and really dialoguing on how we work to uproot that within our community so that we can really move our work forward. Then we’re going to dig into an API educator pipeline. We are educators and everything we do, education is always a part of what we do. Well teaching is always a part of what we do. So we want to figure out in what ways can we ensure that API students all across the country have educators who look like them in their classrooms? We’re going to dig into organizing and figure out what are the best practices, best ways to really organize API spaces. Maybe that means looking at Asian communities, differently than we organize in PI spaces. I don’t know, but join us for that conversation. And then we’ll wrap up the season with really talking about giving space to preserving our language and our culture. And in Samoa, they say that the way you carry yourself is a part of your identity. And without our language and culture, we lose a part of who we are. So join this dialogue, be a part of this dialogue with us.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:26:58] Let’s do it. Let’s do it.
Swati Rayasam: [00:26:59] You’re tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3. KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. We just heard the first episode of the ConShifts podcast and now let’s get into the second episode on wayfinding.
Kai Burley & intro music: [00:27:18] And he’s asking a lot of those questions like, “Mom, I’m white.” And I said, you know what? You have a responsibility. You have a kuleana. Mana’o of Hawaiian, mana’o, you have a kuleana. Oh, my ancestors did that, it’s not my responsibility. Uh no, you’re Hawaiian therefore, you are connected. Like in the, like the ocean, like we’re talking about wayfinding and navigating. Wayfinding is exactly the concepts that you use in wayfinding you use in everyday life.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:27:45] What does it mean to be a wayfinder? In this episode, Gabriel and I chat with Sam and Kai to navigate how we might apply our ancestral knowledge to our daily practices. What up, what up? Tālofa lava, o lo’u igoa o Estella. My pronouns are she/her/hers, sis, and uso.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:28:12] What’s good family? This is Gabriel Anthony Tanglao. Kumusta, pronouns, he/him. Welcome to the Continental Shifts Podcast. Today we have two incredible guests joining us from the beautiful Hawaiian Islands, Mr. Sam Kapoi, a Hōkūle’a sailor and world traveler, serial entrepreneur, and community organizer. And also, my teaching sister, Ms. Kai Burley, a fearless educator, brilliant facilitator, and a new mother recently bringing a beautiful baby girl into this world. Kai, please introduce yourself to our listeners.
Kai Burley: [00:28:49] Aloha, how’s it? My name is Kai. It’s short for Ka’ehukai which means mist of the ocean. My name was given to me by my grandparents. And it’s to offset my twin sister, who is Kaiaulu. She’s the wind of Wai’anae, the area from which I’m from. And so then I’m with the ocean, so wind and ocean, that balance. Yeah, I want to mahalo you guys for inviting me onto your guys podcast. A little bit of background about myself and how I got invited. So, right, like Gabe said, we’re definitely Ohana. I met Gabe what, three, four, three years ago at a decolonizing, not decolonizing, it was a NEA, leadership summit and I kind of went, put myself at him and my other good friends table and I really wanna to say I wasn’t invited, but [laughs] I saw that they were doing a decolonizing issue and I was like, hey, this topic is way better for me so I’m going to sit down at this table. And hopefully I proved myself to be a part of their group or hui, but from then Gabe and those other people that I met at the table have been my rock through my education career. And yeah, so I’m an educator, native Hawaiian, Chinese, Portuguese, teacher, and I started my teaching path in my hometown, Wai’anae. And Wai’anae [phone ding] has the most native Hawaiians in the universe and I’m very proud of that fact. I’m an alumni of that area and of that high school. And it was just a great joy to be able to start my teaching there. Currently I moved, I just became a brand new mom to a first beautiful Hawaiian Filipino-Portuguese girl, to my third child and my first baby. And I have two older boys. Estella too I met her wonderful Samoan, beautiful self again at the NEA conference. And she really helped me to push forward some API things, especially when it, what was it? It was like a new business item. Her and another good brother from Hawaii, Kaleo, got to talking with her and just so like minded and again, very much ohana. Yeah, my background, I’m a Hawaiian Studies major for my undergrad and then a US military is my graduate degree. Yeah, and I just fell into teaching from my other teachers.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:31:00] Kai, I love that background. You refreshed my memory on how we connected a few years ago. It was the NEA Equity Leaders Summit. And at that summit, we were all coming together, able to choose and create some of our own topics. I think we decided to create our own table around decolonizing curriculum and you jumped right into that conversation and from there we went on to hosting some decolonizing curriculum retreats with our crew. We also are joined here by Sam, who you connected me with Kai when my friend Ike and I were starting to host some Freestyle Friday podcasts in the midst of the pandemic and I remember Sam came through and shared some of his wisdom and kicked some of his knowledge with us. So Sam, if you would like to please introduce yourself to our guests and our listeners.
Sam Kapoi: [00:31:53] Aloha mai kakou. O ba’o Samuel Kili’inui Kapoi. Kupa’aina o Wai’anae. My name is Sam Kapoi. My name was given to me by my two great grandfathers on my mother’s side. Samuel being on her mother’s father’s side. And Kili’inui was my mother’s dad. And Kili’inui referencing to the great chief. That name stems deep in our family genealogy. And so it feels like I had to live up to the name growing up. But yeah, I grew up same area as Kai, in Wai’anae on the Island of O’ahu in Hawaii, on the West side, born and raised. I’m a father to three children.
I have three sons and a couple of step kids. And so, a daughter and a son. I’m a serial entrepreneur, out here in Hawaii. Run multiple businesses, and I was invited by Kai to jump on that Freestyle Fridays speaking about wayfinding and navigation, and talking about my life’s journey with sailing Hōkūle’a. It was our canoe, traditional navigation canoe that was born in the 70s during the time of the renaissance and so that canoe literally changed my life in many ways. So yeah, just honored to be here on this podcast. Mahalo.
Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:33:36] Thank you, Sam. And one of the things you said around living up to our names is something that I definitely resonate with. Thinking about my name is Gabriel Anthony Tanglao. It’s actually a tradition in my family where the eldest son is named after his father. But my name is not a junior. I’m Gabriel Anthony so I have my own identity, my own destiny, and that’s something that I do honor. So you naming that definitely refreshed my memory on how important that is for us. And that’s really connected to the theme around wayfinding that we’re exploring. So you did mention the Hōkūle’a sailing. I just wanted to ask a follow up question around that for folks who may be hearing that for the first time. I know that this is tied to an ancient tradition of sailing and I was wondering how you first got into that tradition and also what you’re doing with that knowledge now. If you could speak to that, we would love to hear more about it.
Sam Kapoi: [00:34:37] My introduction to the life of voyaging was back in high school. 2000, 2001 is when I was introduced to a canoe called Eala. That’s the canoe, our traditional canoe in Wai’anae that was built by our people out here for navigation. And so, naturally, I would flow to the mother of all canoes, which is Hōkūle’a. And so being introduced to Eala, and actually, Eala means the awakening, right? It was a canoe built by our people to really wake our people up out on this side because Hawai’i struggled like any other indigenous culture out there, Westerners coming over destroying everything, cutting out culture, language, art, and in the 70s, our kupuna or our elders were kind of fed up and wanted to start this renaissance and so Hōkūle’a was a huge part in revitalizing our traditional arts and culture and everything that fell in between those lines. It’s all volunteer based, you know. Most recently, our big voyage called the Mālama Honua Worldwide Voyage. You can check it out on hokulea.com H O K U L E A dot com and see the voyage. My role on that voyage was like the younger generation leadership. It’s going around the planet, spreading the good works of Mālama Honua, which means to take care of the earth. It’s not like we was going around to tell people how to take care of the earth. We were going around to see how people are dealing with caring for the earth. Because we’re only an island out here and with the obvious changes of climate change and sea level rising, a lot of our shorelines for all little islands is diminishing rapidly. And so, some islands is literally gone because of this climate change. By going around the world, Hōkūle’a was that beacon to bring hope that you know, people is trying to do the right thing to make change in this world. And so that was a three year long voyage, actually four years. Right now we’re planning to go around the entire Pacific Rim starting from Alaska and ending up in Russia and so that’s a kind of crazy one right now.
Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:36:56] Fam, what I love about the way that you broke that down is we’re talking about wayfinding as a concept culturally and exploring our own identities and you’re literally talking about wayfinding across the globe on the sailing you know, voyages. So really love that connection. Kai, in your experience as an educator, given your background, your life experience, your cultural roots, in what ways would you say the traditions, your ancestry, your familial background have influenced your thinking as an educator?
Kai Burley: [00:37:33] I’m very fortunate to be one of those Hawaiians that was raised Hawaiian. I didn’t, even though I have a degree in Hawaiian studies, a lot of people, and that’s why I hate to lead with my degree. I hate, not, I shouldn’t say hate, I don’t really enjoy, not enjoy, I don’t really like to lead with, oh, I’m a native Hawaiian, and then my degree is in Hawaiian studies, because then a lot of people will assume, and not just the foreigners, my own people as well, will assume that, oh, this girl, she just learned how to be Hawaiian by going to school. Because unfortunately for Native Hawaiians, that’s how a lot of us have to learn. A lot of Hawaiians have to learn how to be Hawaiian. But for me, I was very fortunate to grow up in a Hawaiian home. I was raised by my mom’s parents. My grandfather is Native Hawaiian Chinese, and then my grandmother, who is Native Hawaiian Portuguese. I was very fortunate to, from day one, I don’t remember what it is to not be Hawaiian. I’ve been a hula dancer since, I can’t even remember my first hula lesson I want to say from the age of two, my grandparents tell me I started dancing at two. Reading books, we never sat down to read like Mother Goose stories. I remember sitting down and I don’t know, Sam, if you remember that book that Herb Kāne was the illustrator about Pele, Pele is our goddess of the volcano, like that was my first childhood book I can remember. I remember listening and reading about Hawaiian mythology and Hawaiian legends, my grandparents put Hawaiian food on the table. It wasn’t something like I hear from other friends and other Ohana members and things that like eating poi, which is our main staple. I was taught to be grateful for those things and I was taught that it was important to know who I am and where I come from and that I’m Hawaiian.
It’s funny, a funny story. When I was fourth grade I was picked up early from school because I got into a little bit of a fight. Somebody called me a haole, which is a white person or a foreigner. And my grandfather picked me up and I remember this conversation so vividly and he was like, “What happened?” And I was like, this guy called me freaking haole, I’m Hawaiian, I’m pure Hawaiian. And it was at like age ten that my grandfather had to tell me. “You know, babe, you’re not pure Hawaiian.” And I was devastated. I was so devastated. I mean, it was my world, you know what I mean? It was like, I never met my white dad. But yeah, all of those things, language, hula, kupuna, aina[?], kalo. Those things were always with me. They weren’t taught to me in elementary school, they weren’t taught to me in high school, in college. And as an educator I think it became a real obstacle for me because of the advantages that I had being raised in my Hawaiian culture, it made me look at my students at first—and I always get down on myself about this—one of the teachers that I student taught behind, Keala Watson, a great brother from Nanakuli, had to tell me like, “Aye Kai, you cannot expect these students to know what you know, and you don’t get disappointed when they don’t know what a’ole means, which means no. Don’t get upset that they don’t know what the word kuleana means, which means responsibility, because Native Hawaiians in today’s world are worried about surviving. They don’t have the same advantages that some of us had to live within our culture.” And I’m getting goosebumps because it was a real big awakening for me. So I think as an educator, for me, I try to, I bring my whole culture to my classroom. I don’t dumb it down. I don’t dilute it. Even if somebody tells me that I need to dilute it, if somebody tells me that there’s other students that aren’t Native Hawaiian in my classroom, I don’t care. This is Hawaii. I’m a Hawaiian. The majority of the students and the people in the public school education are Hawaiian. I’m going to bring it so that it becomes normal. The same way that I was very fortunate to have had that normal Hawaiian setting.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:41:28] Thank you. Thank you, sis. Something that you said that really resonated with me or stood out was the story that you shared and being told, hey, guess what, you’re not. And having to, like, deal with that, I can definitely relate to that being multi-ethnic, multiracial. Always feeling like there’s no space for you to, I don’t know, maybe fully belong or feeling like you at some points have to fight to belong or prove that no, no, no, this is, this is me this is my lineage, I have a right to this, and that definitely resonates and I can relate so much to that. I had been called growing up a few times, palagi, which in Samoan that’s, yeah, you’re white and I’m like, no, but wait, I’m actually not. And then finding out years later no, actually there’s some German in our family line and I go, oh, okay. So that I felt that and then again, you said, I’m going to bring my whole self, my whole culture to the classroom and I’m with it. And I, it is something that I’m striving to do every single day that I teach. My question to you right now, Kai, is first of all, you recently had a baby, so congratulations. As we look backward and forward to future generations, where do you feel or might you feel that our roles as mothers, and I have a little one now and I’m working really hard to make sure that she is fully aware of who she is as a Samoan, a Nigerian, and Black American, but where do our roles as mothers intersect with our roles as wayfinders?
Kai Burley: [00:43:04] That’s so cool that you asked that question because I think when I was writing my notes on what to bring to the table, I think that’s the role that I was writing from. And I wrote notes, a lot of notes on, not just my kids in the classroom, but like my kids. For my kids as Native Hawaiians, and their dad is white from Florida, I explained to them about being Hawaiian after realizing the privilege that I’ve had. And I will recognize that a lot of the privilege I have with learning my culture, having it in my household, has a lot to do with the other ethnic, backgrounds that I come from. Definitely my Portuguese or white background has definitely set me up for some type of success or privilege if you want to say. We’ll say privilege. But as far as wayfinding for indigenous people, and definitely for Native Hawaiians, I think wayfinding has a lot to do with that, with knowing where you come from. We say mo’okū’auhau, that’s one piece of it. And I try to teach my kids, where you come from, where your dad come from, where do I come from? Where is grandma from? Where is tutu kane from? And then the other side of it, so you have mo’okū’auhau, and then the other side of it is kuleana or responsibility or duty. I rarely say privilege. I only say privilege when I talk about my haole side. When we think in terms of Native Hawaiian mana’o or thought or indigenous thought, there is no sense of privilege; it’s all kuleana. It’s duty. So knowing where you come from and having that cultural understanding of kuleana, not a foreign understanding, right? It’s a cultural understanding. And for Hawaiians, the basis of your kuleana is your kupuna, where you come from. Right. And who you are now and what you’re leaving to your mamo or your descendants in the future. And you, in that thought process, you don’t just, it’s not compartmentalized. I don’t tell my kids, oh, you only think in this way as you’re Hawaiian. No, because you’re taught to be this way, because you’re taught to be Hawaiian, this mana’o goes for every single inlet that you have in your body.
So, this mana’o of kuleana and mo’okū’auhau goes to your haole genealogy. It goes towards your Chinese ancestry. It goes towards your Portuguese ancestry. And just around the same age, my son is 10 and he’s going through that same kind of identity, I want to say forthcoming, and he’s asking a lot of those questions like, “Mom, I’m white.” And I said, you know what? You have a responsibility. You have a kuleana. Mana’o of Hawaiian, mana’o, you have a kuleana. Because you’re white, we’re going to use that and to fulfill everything else that you need to fulfill to help your people, to help your ohana, to help your kaiaulu, to help your community. Because he’s getting this other side from his dad who is white, like, they have that, they have, we’re having that conversation that, “Oh, my ancestors did that it’s not my responsibility.” Uh no, you’re Hawaiian therefore, you are connected. Like in the, like the ocean, like we’re talking about wayfinding and navigating, right? It’s so cool how, like the mana’o, the kind of lessons that Sam and people like Sam, they bring into this conversation of culture. Like wayfinding is exactly the concepts that you use in wayfinding you use in everyday life. Right. You use in the classroom and you have this mana’o that we are all connected. There’s no stop from past, present, and future. There’s no stop from ancestor, self, and descendants, right? We’re all connected. You’re connected to your past, present, future, to your ancestors, and your descendants, and to every area around this place. For my kids, it’s easier for them to understand when you put it in a Hawaiian mana’o. It’s just when you try to bring in all these different other kind of thoughts, like these foreign thoughts of, no, you’re only responsible for yourself or, you know, like the nuclear family, you know, but definitely as a mom, I want my sons and now my daughter to be Hawaiian, like I said, bring their full self and their full self is Hawaiian, no matter if they are part Haole or Chinese, their Hawaiian is what overflows into all of those different compartments.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:47:02] Thank you, Kai. That was, that was beautiful. I was like taking notes, like with not calling it privilege and even being mindful about that because I feel like I do refer to it as privilege anytime I get a piece of information and then listening to you share, I feel like I’m, I don’t want to say owed, but my ancestral knowledge, like that’s mine to own, right? That’s mine to fully to make a part of all of me and my daughters as well. You said that wayfinding has a lot to do with knowing where you come from. There’s a responsibility and a duty. We’re all connected, right? There’s no stop between the past, present, and future, which takes me straight to this question that I have for you, Sam. Why is the concept of wayfinding so relevant for this moment, for today, for our students who are probably in our classrooms right now?
Sam Kapoi: [00:47:51] That’s a great question. I grew up in a home that my grandmother, she was literally born in that generation or raised in the generation that it wasn’t right to be Hawaiian. She was literally told by her mother, my great grandmother, that children is to be heard and not seen, which is like mind blowing nowadays, right? Because we couldn’t speak the language, couldn’t dance. There were rebels obviously that did it. because they didn’t care. But because of this whole western world thing at that time, the new coming, they were trying to adapt to that culture, you know, instead of their own. And so, for me growing up, I wasn’t raised by my mother or my father. I was raised by my grandparents. And, I was raised, in a hard working sense as a Hawaiian, as a kanaka here but on the culture and language side, totally wasn’t. The only thing that was real relevant in culture was providing, like my grandpa he would teach me a lot about the ocean and fishing and all types of different fishing, throwing net, offshore fishing, and diving, and I guess that was my kind of link to the ocean in the beginning with that kind of wayfinding, right? You know, if you’re not going to go to the ocean to provide, then what’s the sense of going, and so, for him, you know, instilling those kind of values and ike, right? The knowledge in me at such a young age. I think about it all the time, you know nowadays, the challenge is real.
Like Kai was mentioning earlier about just trying to survive out here, especially in Hawai’i. Statistically, it’s like the most expensive place to live on this planet, especially in the US. And so, a lot of our people stray away from that cultural connection. Because, for me, I chose to learn. It actually started around ten or nine that I realized that one of my cousins was going to a Hawaiian immersion school, right, fully immersed school for our language and culture. When I asked my grandma and my mom, like, how come I’m not going to that school? You know, like, why do I have to go to our elementary school that’s local here and why not go to the other one? And they were so like, just negative about it. I think that is what kind of elevated or pushed me to learn more and become that again because spiritually that was just pulling me in that path to learn, because if I don’t, then who will? Like one of my kupuna told me before, she told me, ‘o wai ‘oe, right? And basically that means, who are you? And that’s a pretty heavy question. And I ask myself all the time, who am I? Cause it’s just like Kai said, I thought I was just a Hawaiian, you know? 100%. And then, because I never knew my dad until later years, probably around 10 or 11 years old, and found out he was Samoan, German, at first I thought it was just pure Hawaiian Samoan. Then you start digging into the layers of genealogy, mo’okū’auhau, knowing who you are. And finding out you’re German, part Korean, and all this other stuff. And kuleana, the responsibility of those lineages, like what is that to you, and so for me by returning to the core, because I’m here in Hawaii, we call it ho’i i ka piko, right? Return to the center. Immersing myself just finding out who I am as a Hawaiian and how I can make other people realize how, I don’t want to use the word, but privileged we are, you know what I mean? It’s just like, cause that’s true, you know, we, that’s a privilege to be us, our people, that’s what I believe. And, at the same time, like Kai said, it is kuleana, our duty, our responsibility to uphold the highest. Because our kupuna wasn’t idiots they’re, to me, pretty badass, like they survived all this time to become one of the most self-sufficient peoples on this planet, in the middle of the Pacific. And so nowadays with all this distractions, we do veer off the ala, we call it, right? Off our course and trying to find that goal, like that want, that need, that whatever it is that we’re gunning for and just in this course of this year, last year and this year, and so with, with that, I had to ho’i i ka piko again, realize who I am and where I come from. And so, getting back on course to hold the line, to hold that course so that I can be that example, I guess that role model, right, for the next generation to look up to.
Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:52:17] Sam, I feel like I related to much of what you were sharing in terms of my own upbringing regarding assimilating to dominant culture as a first generation Filipino American and in my adult life, I’ve now started that journey to return back to that self discovery of my cultural roots. And I feel like what you share just definitely resonated with me and is inspiring me to think even more deeply about who I am. That’s something that’s going to stick with me.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:52:49] So before we wrap or as we wrap, to wrap, are there any other thoughts, feelings, notes that maybe you wanted to make sure that you shared on this episode with us today?
Kai Burley: [00:52:59] Well I just want to mahalo you guys for having me on there. And I want to mahalo my brother, Sam, a true wayfinder in all sense of the word, like literal wayfinding, mana’o wayfinding and just, he brings so much to our culture and to our keiki. He didn’t really mention this because, you know, he’s all ha’aha’a and humble, but what him and his people do it gives an alternate way of learning. It really brings them back to their culture and it should really be the true way of learning. Like Sam mentioned the Eala and all of these people like Sam that are not in the classroom, but it’s a very indigenous mana’o that the profession of educator doesn’t mean that you’re the only educators in this world, right? We learn from our ohana, right? And our ohana is extended to outside of the classroom, to into the community, to outside of our community, to across continents, and on the US our ohana extends to all of these points, right? There’s no disconnect. Right? In wayfinding and navigation and traversing is fluid once you know who you are and where you come from. Right? but yeah, just mahalo to you guys and mahalo to Brother Sam, Sam Kapoi.
Sam Kapoi: [00:54:11] Mahalo Kai. In my genealogy, my eighth generation grandfather, his name was Poi Nui, Harry George Poi was his name. And so he was known for his kalo, which is basically our older brother, right? And in our genealogy, mythology, in Hawai’i his name was Haloa. And so kalo is the taro root, right? And he was known for his Wai’anae lehua kalo. He was the, one of the first, I think, or the first Hawaiian owned business man out here. People from all over Hawai’i would come down here to get his kalo and his poi. Poi is cooked mashed up kalo. That is pounded and mixed with water to make poi, which is our staple, of life. As disconnected as I was, language and art and all that stuff, I was more connected with food. All my life was food. And more recently, earlier this year, I started a business called Kalo Bombs. We make fresh pa’i’ai every single day to serve it to our people.
Kai Burley: [00:55:08] And it’s the bomb. It’s the bomb.
Sam Kapoi: [00:55:11] One of the first things that you learn in navigation is always to know where you come from. Literally, when you take off from that point from your home to remember where you come from, because just in case anything happens on that voyage, you know exactly where to go. However you want to take that metaphor and apply it to your life, like super critical, helped me a lot through my life with just knowing where home is, physical, spiritual, mental, all that stuff. And so there’s a ōlelo no’eau or a Hawaiian proverb that our kupuna use was that, not all knowledge is learned in one school. That proverb alone is basically to be open, be open and go out there and learn as much as you can, because the mind is the most powerful weapon and by seeking other mentors, throughout the world.
Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:56:00] Yeah, just thank y’all both so much. This has been incredible. I can’t wait to even run it back and re-listen and tune into some of the wisdom y’all dropped.
Estella Owoimaha-Church & outro music: [00:56:10] We want to thank our special guests Sam and Kai one more time for rapping with us tonight. We appreciate you both for being here and really helping us continue to build the groundwork for the Continental Shifts podcast and setting a really strong foundation with contextualizing this concept of wayfinding for us and for our listeners.
Sam Kapoi: [00:56:26] Oh yeah, mahalo nui, you guys.
Kai Burley: [00:56:28] Mahalo nui.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:29] Faafetai tele lava. Thank you for listening.
Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:56:32] Salamat. Thank you for listening. Continental Shifts Podcast can be found on Podbean, Apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:41] Be sure to like and subscribe on YouTube for archived footage and grab some merch on our site.
Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:56:45] Join our mailing list updates at conshiftspodcast.com. That’s C-O-N-S-H-I-F-T-S podcast dot com and follow us at con underscore shifts on all social media platforms.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:57:02] Dope educators wayfinding the past, present, and future.
Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:57:06] Keep rocking with us fam. We’re going to make continental shifts through dialogue, with love, and all together.
Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:57:12] Fa’afeti, thanks again. Tōfā, deuces.
Gabriel A. Tangalao: [00:57:06] Peace. One love.
Miko Lee: [00:57:19] Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important.
Apex express is produced by me Miko Lee along with Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen and Cheryl Truong. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support. Have a great night.