APEX Express

APEX Express 3.23.23 The Legacy of Eastwind Books

The Legacy of Eastwind Books

Tonight APEX Express focuses on the legendary Eastwind Books, the oldest AAPI book store in the country closes on April 30, 2023.  Host Miko Lee speaks with founder Harvey Dong and staff Cheryl Truong and Banoo Afkhami about the history and the future of this beloved community activist book store.

 

 

SHOW TRANSCRIPTS

EastWind Books 20230323-Thu1900

[00:00:27] Miko Lee: Express. Good evening, you are tuned into Apex Express. We’re bringing you an Asian and Asian American view from the Bay and around the world.

I’m your host Miko Lee, and tonight we’re talking about the beloved and amazing East Wind Bookstore. It’ll be closing its doors on April 30th after 41 years in operation. Joining us are is the founder Harvey Dong. Staff Cheryl Truong and Banoo Afkhami. So keep it locked on Apex Express. Welcome East Wind Books to Apex Express.

I am so excited to talk to you all about the legacy of East Wind Books, I wanna start first with our legacy make. Harvey, can you just first share, I mean, I think many people know about you and we’ve interviewed you on Apex Express before talking about the history of where the terminology Asian American even comes from.

And we know you’re an esteemed professor at, um, uc, Berkeley. But can you, in your own words, tell us who you are, who your people are, and what legacy you carry with you from your ancestors? ,

[00:01:33] Harvey Dong: that’s a tough, uh, question because, um, it would take quite a lot of thinking of the different places I’ve been in in the past.

But, um, I, I would just start with, uh, this was our decision to, uh, continue the operations at East Wind Books, uh, was when a friend of ours, uh, Who was the manager of East Wind Books and Art, uh, informed us that this bookstore, uh, 1986 Shaddock, uh, was planning to be closed. And he was sad to see it closed, and he asked us, Myself and my wife Beatrice, if we’d like to continue it, possibly as an Asian American bookstore.

Um, and we said that, uh, we’d think about it and it took us about two years. 9, 19 94, we were customers at his store and in 1996 we decided to take the leap, um, Beatres. Uh, graduated with a degree in ethnic studies, studying literature with, uh, professor Barbara Christian in African American Studies and Professor Elaine Kim in Asian American Studies and also Saling Wong in Asian American Studies.

So she was very familiar with ethnic. lit and myself, I had the experience of, being involved when I was in the AAPA Asian American Political Alliance, to open the first Asian American bookstore on Kearney Street. Yeah, on the international hotel. We were evicted from that location in 1977.

We gave it another try for another two years and, uh, everybody’s shut down it’s operations. So this is post third World Strike Post, um, uh, I Hotel. It was a time. Conservatism Prop 2 0 9, uh, attacks on the affirmative action and so forth, and we decided that maybe we could make a contribution by opening up and continuing.

And evolving East Wind books of Berkeley. Uh, so since then, um, it’s been a, uh, uh, quite a ride, you know, in terms of the people we’ve met, the people we interacted with, uh, the social movements that have come up and. We offered it as a, a place for up and coming, uh, Asian American studies, ethnic studies, uh, poets, uh, writers, um, and so forth.

And it’s, it’s a, uh, a, a spot that we really. Treasure, we really enjoy. Um, the, the dream I had back then was, uh, people go all over to go to City Lights. Maybe East Wind books could be something like that. You know, we, we knew, uh, someone who worked at City Lights. Too. I

[00:04:55] Miko Lee: love that. And I think for many people it has become a version of city lights, especially for the Asian American Pacific Islander community.

But Harvey, you ignored my initial question. You went right into East Wind Books, which we’re gonna be spending our whole episode talking about. And I wanna know, go way back and go back to growing up in Sacramento and, and tell me about, I know that your mom was also an activist. Can you tell me about how your mom influenced you as an organiz?

[00:05:23] Harvey Dong: Well, my mom was always a very outspoken person. A lot of this had to do with the fact that because of the Chinese Exclusion Act, people who came over as paper sons, paper daughters, uh, she was left behind by both her parents, uh, because, uh, boys were prioritized over girls and her papers were given to a male cousin who could help at the, uh, grocery business.

So she was, uh, left. And she went through the sin, uh, jaap Japanese war, uh, during war, war, war ii. Uh, she, uh, was a political refu. She was a refugee, uh, moving from China to Hong Kong, Hong Kong to Macau, and then back to China. So she had all this experience, and so she wasn’t afraid to speak. Uh, we did see her speak out when, uh, acts of racism, uh, happened and, uh, she was also active in the, uh, uh, unions in, uh, for the state employees.

So she, she was an inspiration to us, although we were probably too young to realize that we thought that she was just someone that was. Loud,

[00:06:38] Miko Lee: loud. What wasn’t afraid to speak out or speak her mind, right? Mm-hmm. . So not the model minority, your

[00:06:44] Harvey Dong: mother? Uh, no, definitely not. Um, later when we, when I myself became active, uh, her main concern was not so much the, the content of the activism, but more whether or not I would graduate.

[00:07:00] Miko Lee: Uh, yes. Graduating from college. That was the critical component to your. . Right. So tell me what was your, I know you have been involved in so many of the fabric that makes up Asian American movement building from the Third World Liberation Front to the Black Panthers to and with bees involvement in the Garment workers movement to the I Hotel.

Tell me, what was your very first activist, uh, involvement? What was the thing that spurred your organizing?

[00:07:30] Harvey Dong: Well, my first activist involvement. Dropping out of the, uh, RTC army program at uc, Berkeley. Uh, because I had talked to, uh, fellow classmates about the war. I went to a bookstore, uh, right around the corner from unit three where I lived.

I just went out that exit and I just went in Cody’s and read all their books about us imperialism and colonialism. And so I became, uh, anti-war and I. Lose some friends in the dorms over that cuz fellow Asian American friends who, uh, weren’t as, uh, informed. You know, I would get into discussions and debates and so forth.

[00:08:16] Miko Lee: And you had been reading all the books so

[00:08:17] Harvey Dong: you knew Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I, I felt really passionate about it and I participated in Stop the Draft week 1967, uh, to, to, to, uh, uh, sit in at the induction. In Oakland, uh, I witnessed, uh, police brutality on demonstrators and it only fired us up, uh, for next year.

Stopped the draft week part two in 1968. And so that kind of got me. Involved as an individual. Um, the anti-war movement, uh, began to relate with the, uh, black Panther movement. And from there I attended Black Panther functions. I even went down to the, uh, the headquarters as a volunteer witness, uh, because of the fact that there was news that there was gonna be a, a raid on the Black Panther headquarters and they needed community support.

So I did have that background experience and then when the Asian American Political Alliance started in around May of 1968, um, I joined it the following fall. , um, they, they helped organize one of the first Asian American studies courses. It was an experimental course, and from there, I, I was, uh, became active in A A P A That led to the formation of the T W L F in, uh, December of 1968, and the strike begins in January, 1960.

So I did, uh, meet quite a few people. We did, uh, connect with, uh, different, uh, peoples of color. Um, and white supporters during that time.

[00:10:14] Miko Lee: Thank you for sharing that. And I know, um, B couldn’t be with us here today, but b is your spouse and partner and collaborator, um, life partner and business partner. And I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about how b for Scott involved, and I know that she worked with the, um, garment workers, but do you know her origin story, her activist origin story?

[00:10:35] Harvey Dong: Uh, sure. The, um, the strike, uh, ended. Um, with a moratorium of strike activities pending further negotiations for a third World College. Um, part of that agreement would be the establishment of an interim Department of ethnic studies at uc, Berkeley to begin fall, uh, 1969 and b. , the first, uh, among the first students to be part of that fall 1969, uh, ethnic studies, Asian American studies class.

So she, so from there she, uh, she was actually, uh, previously active in the Asian block at Oakland High. They worked with the Black students Union. So she started

[00:11:22] Miko Lee: as a high school student? Yeah. As an activist.

[00:11:24] Harvey Dong: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. They, they had a group there and the, quite a few number of the. Black students, uh, uh, went to Berkeley that following fall, and they became very active in Asian American studies.

Asian American studies was, uh, somewhat of a liberated, uh, program because they gave us a minimal amount of funding, uh, with the hope that we would, um, burn ourselves. Ah, but instead we, we used whatever funding we had. Uh, we used the, uh, the classes to develop Asian American studies and reached out to the communities nearby, such as Japan Town in San Francisco, uh, Oakland, Chinatown, Oakland, uh, Manila Town, uh, San Francisco, Manila Town, south of Market.

And so forth. And, and then students from Asian American studies classes would go to all these locations and they would become, uh, uh, people who would start, uh, serve the people type programs.

[00:12:38] Miko Lee: I love that. So they thought they were gonna squish y’all, but instead they kind of helped to fire up a movement.

[00:12:42] Harvey Dong:.Yeah, we had to really Think and brainstorm, you know, solutions, you know, given the limitations. So Bee became, very active in, Asian American studies. It was called Asian Studies back then, and she was actually in the, governing body, you know. Oh, wow. So just imagine a university program where you have a freshman having a say in the running of the program.

[00:13:15] Miko Lee: Does that happen nowadays?

[00:13:15] Harvey Dong: Uh, now it’s very distance, you know, it’s, it’s not, not at all

[00:13:21] Miko Lee: basically. No, no, that doesn’t happen now. Wow. And then how did you two meet? What is the activist love story of Harvey and B Dong?

[00:13:30] Harvey Dong: Well, we’ve met, in Asian American. we became closer through the formation of the, uh, Chinatown Cooperative Garment Factory, which was a, uh, an alternative to the, sweatshops in San Francisco Chinatown. Uh, that was also an, originally an Asian American Studies, community course project where there’s investigation, uh, interviews, oral histories, and, and then we applied for, uh, seed. To purchase equipment machinery to establish a, um, a cooperative garment factory, um, in the basement of the International hotel.

[00:14:14] Miko Lee: Oh, so you started that first and then it was at the I Hotel that you started mm-hmm. , everybody’s bookstore, is that right?

[00:14:20] Harvey Dong: everybody’s bookstore was on the, Kearney street entrance of on the international hotel block. that started as a  like a 10 by 10 room. We, solicited like 50 bucks each from different  AAPA members and we raised about $500 and we got a business license. We went down to l n s bookstore., the book vendor in San Francisco, uh, book people was another. and also China books, which had a, never ending supply of, of red books and, literature from China. that’s how the bookstore started. And that was actually I think the, the last activity of the Asian American Political Alliance. It, it ended, you know, cause So, so

[00:15:25] Miko Lee: was was founding

[00:15:26] Harvey Dong: the bookstore? Uh, yeah. Was founding the bookstore. And then after that, the, the bookstore, uh, is, um, becomes independent of, uh, of the aapa because people, scatter, move, go to different directions and stuff. we then inform. around that same time, we, we, Asian American Studies, formed this Asian studies field office, which brought students to, uh, San Francisco Chinatown and Manila Town holding classes. So, so we had this bookstore, we had this Asian studies field office. Uh, a couple years later, funding gets cut for, for the field office.

And we then form an independent Asian community center known as acc. And the acc, um, had to raise its own monies. Uh, there were a lot of elderly people coming down, a lot of seniors, and they themselves felt really very attached to the center and they. , um, solicit funds to cover the rent. Yeah. Wow. So it became a community space. what happened there was we, we, we had people go to, uh, Portsmouth Square and we told the, uh, people sitting there, the elders that, you know, you can come down to our center and sit. You don’t have to sit out here in the cold. Ah, in the rain.

[00:16:57] Miko Lee: You gave them a space.

[00:16:57] Harvey Dong: Yeah. So they all came down. The only problem was, you know, there was a lot of smoking and, uh, we did, there’s no, you know, tobacco type related regulations and stuff like that, right? But,  there was tea serve. some of the old men, elders would tell us talk stories, while we’re drinking tea. we connected, you know,  this type of phenomenon, we found out was also happening. Other locations and places. There was community center set up in, Japanese Community Center.

in J Town there was a basement workshop in New York City., so you have this, the Civil rights Movement, black power movement, ethnic studies, movements. These classes,, wanting to send students to the community. then you have these centers developing. So it shows how like movements interrelate and connect the bookstore, everybody’s bookstore was a part of that, providing the information.

[00:18:13] Miko Lee: So it’s always been, even in its very roots, it’s been based in and of, and by and for the community as a way of building in political action. Is that right?

[00:18:21] Harvey Dong: Yeah. exactly. We were definitely about, Building this wave of activism by going to the grassroots, you know? and that was happening, uh, in, particularly in, in, in the African American community, the Puerto Rican community,, Chicano community. All that was, was happening where you have young people, redefining their, their purpose in life.

[00:18:57] Miko Lee: and their connection with their elders.

Harvey Dong: Exactly. Yeah.

Miko Lee: That’s amazing., I have a question that has come from my colleague, which runs, Nancy Xiong that runs Hmong Innovating Politics. And actually tomorrow, our network at AACRE, we’re doing an intergenerational exchange all about organizing and it’s, elders speaking with young folks about how they’re organizing and how they’re uplifting their community. And her question is, can you talk about. organizing has evolved over time as you go through the different life transitions, like starting a family, taking care of kids, take, taking care of parents. How do you, what, what is a way to keep a healthy work life balance with your

[00:19:40] Harvey Dong: activism? Well, taking care of um, uh, elders is a very tough task cuz we’re, we’re dealing with that now cuz Bee’s dad passed. Last month, and then her mom moved into our, our house, uh, this, this month. So, so definitely it’s, it’s, it’s something that, that has to be, uh, addressed. I, I know back then, you know, we, we, um, we did have, um, quite a few elders, uh, relate to our organization, but we, we didn’t have any specific, uh, program. Uh, other than recreation, um, showing of films, uh, celebrating holidays, uh, together and, and so forth, the international hotel tenants, um, I, I know the International hotel, um, tenants collective, they, they, they actually, uh, brought in, uh, food programs, social services.

Needs, you know, things that could meet, meet the daily needs of the elderly. So, so definitely it, it has to be a, uh, Dealt with on a community-wide basis so that people aren’t isolated.

[00:20:59] Miko Lee: But for you personally, how do you balance work and life with all of these things that are going on? You’re still a professor, you’re still, you know, been running the bookstore, you’ve been doing your activism, you’ve been doing so many different things. How do you, Harvey, I know in the past you used to do Tai Chi, and I’m just wondering, are there other tools that you utilize on the daily to be able to stay sane in a crazy world?

[00:21:20] Harvey Dong: Well, sometimes if I, I. Extremely stressed. I would get on a bike and ride it and I would take pictures of water.

[00:21:30] Miko Lee: What is it about water that’s calming for you?

[00:21:32] Harvey Dong: Uh, well, the, the, if, if you ever look at the bay, the water changes, you know, sometimes it’s higher, sometimes it’s lower, sometimes it’s blue, sometimes it’s gray. So it, it does, it does, uh, make you kind of, um, think about how things. Um, and it never stops. You know, it, it’s always something you can learn and pick up. Tai Chi, I, too, Kung fu, especially when we started, we were getting threats and, uh, from the. Messages. And, you know, when you started the bookstore,

[00:22:13] Miko Lee: you were getting threats?

[00:22:13] Harvey Dong: Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. And the Asian Community Center, we, we, because we were an alternative to the, uh, conservative establishment, um, in Chinatown, uh, there were newspaper articles and, uh, from conservative newspapers that, that, uh, something should be done.

And, and, and, and, and then we, we, we did, uh, uh, participate in some activities where, um, the Dolui movement, uh, back then, I, I, I remember it was attacked by, uh, hired thugs. And so it was ver very tense times too. You know, it wasn’t like, um, easy going, you know? Right. There’s, there’s always violence, the threat of violence, and you have to figure.

How to survive, uh, preserve your, your energy and also, uh, protect, uh, the community. So what did you figure out about that? Uh, well, an elder came down and sat down with us and said, uh, I’m gonna bring you guys to, to these, uh, uh, seafoods who can, uh, teach you, uh, some martial. . Um, so, so we did that and, but, but I, I would say that the, the main thing was to establish ties and con connect and connections with, uh, the youth in the community, you know, that could be used against you and, um, know your enemies, know your enemy, uh, build allyships, um, run, uh, programs that have meaning.

You know, we, we. We, uh, distributed food to, um, maybe a thousand families every month. You know, uh, Lonnie Ding, the filmmaker actually, uh, found that there was this government surplus food, and she initiated that program and the Asian Community Center provided the. So every month it, the, the, the place from front to back was filled with surplus food,

And in that surplus food we would have literature, uh, uh, about resources, services. Uh, a lot of the, uh, the people who received the food were workers and when they had labor disputes, they would come to us and we would provide translation. Uh, seek out legal aid and so forth. Yeah. So

[00:24:46] Miko Lee: provide the community what they need.

Harvey Dong: Yeah. Food, legal services, advice. Yeah. And educate them about what’s going on in the exactly capitalistic system. Yeah. Um, we’re hearing words of wisdom from East Wind Books Founder Harvey Dong. We’re gonna take a moment and just have a little break and listen to some music. Uh, the Yellow Pearl from. Old School Movement Song Collective Charlie Chin, Chrissy Gemma, and Joanne Nobuko Miyamoto.

And we’ll be back in a moment after listening to Yellow Pearl.

Song

[00:27:02] Miko Lee: Few. All right. That was Yellow Pearl from A Grain of Sand by Old School Collective Charlie Chin, Chris Ijima, and Joanne Nobuko Miyamoto. And we are here with the folks from East Wind Bookstore and you are tuned in to Apex Express, a 94.1 K P F A, and 89.3 KPF FB in Berkeley. 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K2 four eight BR in Santa Cruz and [email protected]. So we are here talking about East Wind Books, talking about organizing and talking about the impacts that this has on your body.

And I’m gonna actually throw the mic over to Cheryl Trong to ask a question of Harvey about, that you’re curious about. Go ahead.

[00:27:54] Cheryl Truong: um, hi everyone. I’m Cheryl. I work at Eastman Books. I’ve been working here for maybe two years now. Over two years. Um, yeah, I mean, just going back to that question of navigating this work life balance, I think there’s something that’s not always talked about in these radical organizing is the effect it has on your life.

Kind of like a sacrifice. And while Harvey is super humble and you know, is someone who does everything with all of his heart, as I know, and Bonnie’s also right here next to me on my right, who also works at the bookstore and started when I did, we’ve seen just within these last two years, you know, the, how much it affects.

How much organizing affects you and how much you sacrifice for it. Um, something Harvey doesn’t talk about often is one, like financially, like back in the day when he was organizing, he didn’t have a fridge. He would put a gallon of milk on his balcony every night just to keep it from spoiling and eat bread.

Um, so there’s a lot you do. I mean, there’s a lot you gain too. You know, the community. And that spiritual, you know, aspect of fighting for the things you believe in with people that you care about. Um, but there’s also, you know, you sacrifice a lot. I mean, also, you know, b the co-owner of East Wind Books, she stays up till 3:00 AM ordering books and planning our next events.

You know, they both put all of their heart into everything that they do. And while it’s such a beautiful sentiment, they’re also. Real life aspects as well. Um, oh, I was supposed to ask a question.

[00:29:37] Miko Lee: Well, Cheryl, I think you wanted to ask about how, um, you were mentioning this to me before about how both Harvey and Bee hold all of this space in their bodies, how they take care of themselves, how they work through this, because you’ve been doing it for a long time. So what are the elements that keep you going day? .

[00:29:58] Harvey Dong: Um, well, I just wanted to address the, uh, the milk being put up on the window. So ,

[00:30:04] Miko Lee: critical component. .

[00:30:07] Harvey Dong: Uh, yeah, actually I, I, I did get away with doing that and I thought it was convenient, except that one day I saw a rat, um, trying to get the milk. So after that, that, that stop

[00:30:20] Miko Lee: So then what did you do with the milk Harvey?

[00:30:20] Harvey Dong:  Um, well, shortly after that, me and. Um, got married and she did have a refrigerator, . And so, so with that marriage we, the wonders of marriage, we had a refrigerator . But, um, but definitely, I, I, I, I think it, it is not unusual for, for activists in the sixties and seventies to, to, um, do many tasks cuz there were so many things going on.

Time was co. You know, you say, uh, 1968, so many things happened in one year, um, internationally, the war nationally, um, assassination of civil rights, uh, leader, uh, Martin Luther King, uh, SF State, uh, students, uh, negotiating for, uh, uh, thorough studies, um, the, the Chinatown protests against Poverty. Um, the French, uh, student rebellion, the Zarin student rebellion.

So, so time is really compressed and you feel that you, you have to do the, the best you can, you know, given the, the short amount of time. I, I, I think that people felt that they, they did have to sacrifice because of the, the fact that, uh, the world could end too, you know? And so, so, so there’s that time.

That a lot of the activists had, uh, back then. And, um, so some of that, uh, probably does come back and kind of, uh, define what I do. I, but lately, I, I do know that, you know, as you get older, you, you can’t do so many things at. Uh, much lesser. Remember ? ,

[00:32:16] Miko Lee: I think you have an amazing memory. You’re always spitting dates out that I’m saying. How does he keep all that in his mind? ? Yeah. Um, we’re gonna get, we’re gonna talk about the future of East Wind Books in a moment, but I, I wanna just go and talk a moment about like, what is a memory that stood out? Like when you, when you’re just talking about how you learn martial arts, um, as a way. You have, have safety and also a sense of wellness. I’m wondering, was that before or after the whole Bruce Lee Wong jog Jack Man fight schools that were in East Wind Books. And can you tell that story to our audience about what

[00:32:51] Harvey Dong: happened? Well, the, the learning of martial arts was, was actually, um, even before Bruce Lee became famous, you know, because we, there was definitely a need to defend yourself safety. Yeah. For safety. Um, but years later, uh, at East w Books of Berkeley, um, there was, um, a book event we had, um, with, uh, Rick Wing who teaches at community college. I think he’s a math professor, but he was also the, uh, the. assigned by Wal Jackman to carry on the legacy of his school. And Wong Jackman was the person who fought Bruce Lee. And there’s many stories about who, who won that? Wong JackMan or Bruce

[00:33:41] Miko Lee: Lee won one of the most famous karate battles. Yeah. Ever.

[00:33:42] Harvey Dong:  And it’s, it, it, it’s, it is comp continually being retold with different angles and stuff like that. But, uh, Rick Wing, um, did research on it and he wrote about it. Um, I think it’s online. Um, and he invited, uh, he wanted to have a book event and we had at East Wind Books and he invited all the martial arts schools in the Bay Area and. , the first thought that came to my mind is, oh, no , what’s gonna happen? Yeah. What’s gonna happen? Or, or, or, how big is our space?

How big is our space? And, um, would this create like rivalry between different clubs over their styles? And so, so there were TaeKwonDo, uh people, karate people, kung fu. Um, how many people showed up? Uh, about 45 or 50. Mm-hmm. and some of ’em were huge , big people, Uhhuh, and they were, uh, but we just sat around and, and, and, and people were sharing stories about their martial arts club and, and their interactions with Bruce Lee and Wal Jackman and, and, and, and, and then there’s one huge, uh, Puerto Rican, uh, karate guy said, man, this.

uh, I feel like a, a child in a candy shop. I, I, I’m really enjoying all these stories. , .

[00:35:12] Miko Lee: So it became a talk story event. Yeah. Not just like, oh, my school’s better than your school, or, he won this

[00:35:17] Harvey Dong: fight. Yeah, yeah. None of that. Yeah. And, and, and, uh, people really respected each other. And when the, the, the, the, the event ended, uh, , everybody went across the street to the Taiwan restaurant, which is no longer there.Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, um, for, for a meal. And, um, one person said, I don’t, I don’t know what I should do, uh, because I feel that we all got together here, and this is like a. Sacred place. And then he turned around and did a bow as if he was in, in, in a, uh, a studio in Dojo, dojo, , or, good. Love it.

[00:35:54] Miko Lee: Love it. That is so fun.

Are there other, um, memories that have stood out for you in the 41 years of experiences that have happened at East Wind Books that you think, oh

[00:36:04] Harvey Dong: wow. Uh, let’s see. Yang did an event,

[00:36:10] Miko Lee: Jean Yang of the graphic novelist, the Eisner Award-winning graphic novelist that did American Boy in Chinese. That’s actually just about to come out as a whole series, I think, on Disney with, um, almost all of the same performers from everything everywhere all at once. But anyway, that Jean Yang, yes.

[00:36:31] Harvey Dong: Yeah, yeah. He, he, he tells the story about how he, he. , um, uh, affections for East Wind Books of Berkeley because when he first started out, he created this, this zine that was, uh, stapled and he came into East Wind Books. And he said, uh, would you carry this? And I said, yeah, just put it there.

But, but he went, but he went to other stores and they, they wouldn’t take it cuz they thought he was this young kid. Yeah. Uh, trying to promote something that wouldn’t grow or develop. Do they sell? Uh, yeah. Yeah. They sell. Do

[00:37:06] Miko Lee: you have one? Um, that would be such

[00:37:08] Harvey Dong: a collector’s item. I think we, we, we, we sold out.

Oh. But, but he always remembers that. So whenever we have an event, you know, he. ask him to do an event. He’s willing to. Yeah. I love

[00:37:20] Miko Lee: that. Yeah. That is so amazing. Um, okay, now tell me about what made U N B decide to close East Wind Books? Uh,

[00:37:29] Harvey Dong: well, it, there’s the issue of gentrification, the rent, so there’s the economic part there.

Uh, age is, is another part. And, um, family responsi. . Um, so we had to kind of weigh that, you know, um, I, I think one time, um, the last time we were thinking of closing it, I, at, at, at a book event. I, um, I think it was, um, uh, black Against the Empire, um, is, uh, Waldo Martin, um, um, worked on a. About the Black Panthers.

Mm-hmm. and, uh, Bobby Seal was there and we, we talked about, uh, the importance of the book and the importance of the bookstore. Uhhuh . And I think I said, oh yeah, we’ll, we’ll be here forever.

[00:38:29] Miko Lee: Alas .

[00:38:30] Harvey Dong: And so after making that statement, we, we did commit for another five years on. You,

[00:38:38] Miko Lee: you boxed yourself in there, , but I’m, I’m wondering you what your take is.

Okay. We’re gonna get back to that one second, but I’m wondering what your take is on ethnic bookstores like Marcus Garvey books and East Wind Books. It’s really there. Yeah. There’s, it’s a, it’s a hard thing to keep going these

[00:38:54] Harvey Dong: days. Uh, yeah, yeah, definitely, uh, difficult, uh, largely having to do with rent and, uh, gentrification and, and we have a, um, a huge.

you’re in, um, net, net, net, uh, bill mm-hmm. , which means that we, we pay something like 4% of the bill for the entire building, including water, to insurance, to property tax, to Right. Uh, repairs, which is not feasible. Yeah. So it, it definitely, uh, every year it’s, it’s, um, increasing. Um, and then the, uh, overhead we have to deal with, uh, The payroll tax, which is important, but um, is, it’s a big pill.

And, and also the, um, um, sales tax. Yeah. That always comes up.

[00:39:48] Miko Lee: So modern living, modern living as, uh, then the burdens of trying to just keep things going are just too much.

[00:39:56] Banoo Afkhami: Yeah. But to go back to your question, Miko, um, about like, you know, the role of ethnic bookstores, uh, well, I, I can’t speak for like Harvey, but I can speak on, you know, as a staff person who has seen and helped many customers through the store and also as a person, like who enjoys shopping at Eastwood and spends a portion of their paycheck back at the bookstore just buying books again. Love it. Um, , it’s ethnic bookstores are really hard to come by and, you know, as Harvey like really highlighted like there’s a lot of costs that just make it really hard to exist as a small bookstore without all the additional like, challenges you face.

Just, you know, of like carrying a very niche selective books that you know though very important, not a lot of people are gonna. Really want to go for it, you know, because Right. It goes against, um, pop culture. It goes against like, you know, the common media stream, you know, which is centrist, if not conservative.

[00:40:50] Miko Lee: Or even just taking some young person’s little zine that they stapled together. and putting it on the shelf.

[00:40:56] Banoo Afkhami: Yeah. You know, and supporting like local artists and everything. Yeah. Like it’s, they’re super important, you know. Though, you know, though we are small, um, you know, there are so many people that come into the store and are just like, wow. You know, like, I’ve never seen it all in one place. Right. You know, I, I like, I’m, you know, like seen

[00:41:13] Miko Lee: what in

[00:41:13] Banoo Afkhami: All plate, one place seen. So, you know, we feature Asian American books, but also just radical, radical books at all times. And by authors? Yes, by bipo authors. And you know, like for example, I remember, especially with like, you know, our Filipino-American population here in the Bay Area, there’s not a lot of representation in media of like Asian-Americans in general, but especially anything outside of like, you know, Chinese American, Japanese-American, Korean American, like the rest of us go kind of forgotten, you know?

Right. Um, and so like, you know, especially like seeing this happen with like a lot of more like, you know, niche communities, you know, like. just a few days ago, you know, there’s a Phil Filipino American, uh, person, and they came into the store and they’re like, do you have any stuff on, like, anythings on like Filipino, you know, diaspora, Filipino American stuff.

I’m like, yeah, actually we have a whole shelf on it. You know, I added them over. There’s exception on that . And like, they were so heart warmed and overwhelmed by that, and it’s like, oh my God, I ha I never saw them in all in one place. You know? Like you might find like in, you know, an Alan Robles book, you know, here, or you know, you could find like this other book there, you know, but you don’t.

all together. Right. And when you see an entire shelf full, it’s kind of magical. Um, and I remember that person, like I ended up bringing them a stool just cuz they wanted to like, flip through all the books and like decide which ones they wanted to go through, you know? And, and they ended up buying a bunch of them, you know, and it’s just, it’s moments like that, you know, where you remember, wow, like, this is a really important thing to have.

Um, and it’s really difficult to keep open, you know, because, , there’s, you know, these communities are intentionally like left out of mainstream media. Right. You know, like there’s, it’s a constant fight to get more representation and when you’re already underrepresented, you know, and like the most that maybe a common person might want to get.

In the store. I don’t, I shouldn’t say common, but like, you know, a person who only watches mainstream media. Like they, they might come in and be like, Hey, do you have the new chan? You know, like the Chani comic book or like, do you have like, you know, like, you know, crying in Amart, although that one’s really good, you know?

Or like That’s a good book, . Yeah. But it’s like, you know, they only, what’s the bestseller ones? Yeah, what’s the bestseller? You know, do, right. Do you have like, , you know what, what was the other one? Bullet train. You know, that one sold. Like things like that. Right,

[00:43:31] Miko Lee: right. Well, um, I love hearing that about how there will be East Wind is continuing in some way and I wonder if, um, both Bonu and Cheryl, can you talk about what is the future of East Wind Books, the brick and mortar Store we know is closing in April. Right. And, and we’re inviting folks to come to the bookstore. Yeah. There’s a what, tell us what’s happening at the bookstore before it closes first and then where, where we are going in the future.

[00:44:00] Cheryl Truong: So right when you said, asked us to start talking about the future, Harvey gave me this really funny look.

[00:44:06] Miko Lee: I noticed that. What’s that about? Please tell us.

[00:44:08] Cheryl Truong: I mean, he’s curious too, you know, because this is something really only our generation can answer. Um, so, okay. So as for now, I mean, Eastland Books is still gonna be here in the Bay Area. We’re still gonna be doing our community events. We’re gonna be online distributing books on a even wider reach. Now, you know, we can ship. Globally, uh, instead of just having in-store pickup, things like that. Um,

[00:44:37] Banoo Afkhami: our website is asia book center.com

[00:44:39] Miko Lee: and we’re talking about doing some kind of apex collaboration Yes. So that we can celebrate a p i books on air as well. But what’s happening if somebody walks into the bookstore right now on University Avenue, what do they see? What’s happening right now?

[00:44:54] Cheryl Truong: You’re gonna see a whole bunch of. On for sale for $5. Wow. And we’re talking actually like really amazing, incredible books. Um, so we’re trying to clear our shelves. Lots of really great books are on sale for 30% off. Um, you’re gonna see Harvey in the back office drinking a can of Diet Coke, even though I tell him not to. You’ll probably see me or Bonoo at the front counter and we’re. . Also happy that it lasted for as long as it did and will end

[00:45:31] Miko Lee: strong. And then there’s community events that are still ongoing. I know that you have one coming up. Yes. The Oakland Cultural Center. Asian Cultural Center. Can you tell us about that one?

[00:45:40] Cheryl Truong: I’m so excited for this one. So Chiwan just re released a book called, have you Eaten yet? Recipes from Chinese American Family or something like that. Um, and then he’s going to be in conversation. Amazing. Chef Martin Jann from YN Can Cook, and I think a little birdie told me that, uh, Jann is going to be doing a surprise cooking demonstration at the O A C C too, which is something I think they’ve never done before. So yeah, we’re excited.

[00:46:11] Miko Lee:  So how do people find out about coming to that event?

[00:46:14] Cheryl Truong: Well, you can go on our Instagram. , uh, at Eastwood books or follow the Oakland Asian Cultural Center at Oakland Cultural Center on Instagram. Or you can go on occ.cc/events and you’ll see a whole bunch of their events there too.

[00:46:31] Banoo Afkhami: And you can also check out our website and send up to our newsletter, uh, which is also on our website. Um, like I said, it’s asia book center.com. Uh, we post all of our events on there as well as links to purchase the books of the events.

[00:46:46] Miko Lee: Um, so while the brick and mortar store is closing, you will still continue.I know East Wind Books is also a nonprofit, so the nonprofit arm is the aspect that’s continuing. Is that right? Mm-hmm. . So the community center part, the community, maybe it’s a virtual community or a community center at different locations will continue to exist? Yes,

[00:47:09] Harvey Dong: correct. And then the, the other, um, activity that’ll continue is, um, uh, the publishing of, um, books.

[00:47:19] Miko Lee: Oh, great. Tell us about that.

[00:47:20] Harvey Dong:  Uh, well, professor Carlos Munoz, who’s active in the Chicano movement. is, um, writing a book about his, uh, life story, uh, his autobiography, and it it’ll be published by East Wind Books of Berkeley. And the book covers his life from being involved in the, uh, LA student, uh, uh, blowouts. It was a huge walkout in, um, around 1968 and, um, his, uh, teaching of ethnic studies and Chicano studies. at uc, Berkeley and his activism in the Chi Chicano movement. Um, another uh, book that we recently released is titled The Power of Our Stories Won’t Stop. And Who’s that by? Uh, that’s published by, um, uh, Helene Helen Lee. that book, uh, uh, is an anthology of. peoples of color, uh, who write about their early activism and sharing their stories, uh, to the younger generation. Oh,

[00:48:37] Miko Lee: love that. That would be, that’s very appropriate to our conversation today. Maybe we could do a book club on that. That sounds fun. Um, how many books has East Wind published?

[00:48:48] Harvey Dong: We put ’em out on the table that day and there must be about six or seven.

[00:48:52] Miko Lee: There’s more than that. There’s

[00:48:53] Banoo Afkhami: more than that. Harvey. Those was just the ones we had on hand, Harvey. Yeah. And also like I, I was limited on table space there. Okay. You know ,

[00:49:01] Miko Lee: you’ll see East Wind at a series of different community events that are happening.

Um, I saw you backstage at Cambodian Rock Band. We. So good. Yeah, so different events. You’ll see East Wind books and we always encourage folks to support local bookstores, not the big bad monsters. In

[00:49:18] Cheryl Truong: addition, uh, there’s a East Wind documentary in the works being worked on by Banu, uh, our good, good French Shine Lee and um, myself.

[00:49:30] Miko Lee: Oh, great. What’s the timeline for that, Cheryl? Tell us about the document. , we’re

[00:49:35] Banoo Afkhami: gonna hopefully have a teaser done by sometime in April. Um, you know, to commemorate the closing of the store. And I don’t know, as of right now, I mean, there’s no complete set timeline. We’re just kind of, we want to capture these stories and the stories of, you know, Harvey and b and, you know, everyone involved in the movement.

Um, So we actually agreed, you know, a couple weeks ago in a, in, in a Zoom meeting, sometime ridiculously late into the middle of the night , um, that, you know, we wouldn’t set a 100% firm timeline for the super final product, but we will be releasing a teaser sometime in April. Um, just because we wanna make sure that we’re doing justice to their stories and we don’t want.

Rush that process. Um, especially, you know, once we, you know, feel, like, feel out what, like the final through lines of the story are gonna be, um, and just to make sure that we do it just as, because it’s such an important part of the community, it’s such an important part of the Asian American movement. Um, and it can serve as a really beautiful metaphor for, you know, passing the torch and also just.

Um, what it means to be an activist. So we don’t want to rush that process. But, um, we’re

[00:50:53] Cheryl Truong: also definitely approaching it kind of with a whole bunch of seeds of curiosity. I think our hypothesis is kind of us asking how do we navigate, uh, post East One society? Not that, you know, east wind’s forever gone, but just how do we move on after being impacted?

Influentially by such a wonderful

[00:51:16] Miko Lee: place. I love that. Thank you for sharing. Can each of you, Cheryl and Bonous, share what, who you come from, who are your people, and what is the legacy you carry with you, especially as you go into this next envisioning of what East Wind becomes? I

[00:51:33] Cheryl Truong: love this question so much, right?

When you asked it, Bonu, Bonu basically gave me a mental fist bump. Um, we love talking about this, so I. . I was born and raised in Long Beach, California, right? Harvey? Harvey loves Long Beach, um, . So I was born and raised in Long Beach. I come from a family of three or four siblings, or no, three other siblings, four people in total.

Um, both of my parents are refugees from Vietnam. My mom left Vietnam when she was young to China, and then eventually, Had to leave China and walk or and go to Cambodia. And from Cambodia, she walked all the way to Vietnam again. Um, my dad was part of the second wave of Vietnamese boat people. He was on sea for, you know, five, five days, four nights I think, before he eventually landed in a refugee camp in Malaysia.

Um, so I think our connect. I feel really similarly with Harvey, our connection to water. You know, we can trace our bloodlines through waterlines basically. Um, and yeah, we’re, yeah, that’s my family I guess. I have other family in Orange County as well in the little Saigon area, and my sister and I are up here in the East Bay. Love it.

[00:52:52] Miko Lee: Thank you. And finally, I’d love to hear.

[00:52:55] Banoo Afkhami: Yeah, so, um, my mother’s actually Mexican American. My dad is Iranian. Um, he immigrated after the revolution. Um, as an artist. He was a photographer and at the time he was studying and working to be a director in cinema. Um, but then the revolution happened and there were a lot of restrictions on art, um, and self-expression.

So he had a really complicated immigration story. Um, That I’m probably not gonna own to right now, but he, uh, after a lot of trial and error and years of trying, he made his way over to America. Um, and he opened a Photoshop, um, in San Leandro near the Bayfair Mall. Um, and my mom, uh, so she was Mexican American.

Uh, she grew up in la um, To at the HNO family. So we’re at the Hans, uh, generationally speaking. So like the border crossed us, we did not cross the border. . Yeah. Uh, we were Mexicans native to Texas. Um, and then Texas became a part of the US after my people were already there. Um, but yeah, so my grandparents left Texas because Jim Crow there was really, really awful.

And, um, they moved to LA and my mom grew up in LA and. . Um, then she moved up to north, uh, northern California and she was into photography as a hobby. And so that’s how my parents met. Um, my mom was his customer and so that meant for growing up in a really interesting upbringing. Um, just in the sense of it was weird, but in a lot of ways, being Iranian taught me how to be Chicano and being Chicano taught me how to be proud of being Iranian and Asian American.

Cuz as far as diaspora goes, like. Um, like as Chicanos, we’ve been here and dealing with this type of racism for like a lot longer than the Iranian community has, where as a lot of us only immigrated in the eighties. So it really helped having, you know, people who like for generations understood what racism was to a community that was.

So that’s where it’s like, you know, like I’m, you know, second gen in this, you know, where it’s like my dad immigrated, you know, hoping to live the American dream and, you know, Now I’m the one that has to deal with like growing up Iranian American in a society that, you know, hardly wants to recognize that you exist.

So in that sense, to go back to your original question of like, what does that do for, you know, east Wind or whatever, I mean, or whatever, , . Well, I don’t know. I think in terms of our generation when it comes to community work, I don’t feel like I can take claim. our movement. I think our movement is made up of everyone.

You know, I don’t think it can just be one person or, um, what I do see in terms of differences between our generation and older generations is some of the ways that we organize. Um, and also like, I don’t know, we have to kind of evolve that and evolve how we trust each other. Cuz I remember Harvey, you know, would talk about how back in the day, they just had to trust in each other to show up and for us, I don’t know, we have to be more creative with it. Um,

[00:56:09] Miko Lee: thank you so much for sharing so much information about Legacy and about the future of East Wind Books and how we have to work together to be able to make it all happen. this is so critical for our movement, for our movement building. Webid a fond farewell to the brick and mortar store of East Wind Books. We encourage people to come there. Door closes,  in April and encourage people to get involved in all the different events that are happening. Um, that will continue to happen both online and at different locales.

So find out more information at the East Wind website. You can also check out more information about. Amazing community events that are happening. There’s a Women of Color Leadership conference tomorrow in San Francisco. There’s the People Get Ready Political Conference at uc, Berkeley on Saturday.

Cambodian Rock Bands still playing at Berkeley Wrap and Muni raised me is at San Francisco. Check those out. Um, and please check out our website, k pfa.org to find out more about these events and about East Wind Books. And we thank all of you out. Listeners, keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions for the world.

Because your voices are important. Apex Express is a proud member of Acre Asian Americans for civil rights inequality, a network of progressive AAP I groups. Find out [email protected]. Apex Express is produced by Paige Chung Swati. Raam Anju Pret Man, Shak Jalina Keenly, and me Miko Lee, thank you so much to our engineer, Jose Gonzalez, for making this show happen. Woo, and to all have a great night.